424: Kid Politics

Ira Glass

This is an amazing documentary called Please Vote for Me about an election in a third grade class by a filmmaker named Weijun Chen. It takes place in a city called Wuhan in central China. The eight year olds are told that they are going to vote to decide who is going to be the class monitor. It's the first election in their school ever. None of them has ever witnessed or taken part in anything like this at all.

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

"Isn't this new?" their teacher asks them. And one of the three candidates, a little butterball of a kid named Cheng Cheng, turns out to be a natural politician. With no adults prompting him, he immediately starts button-holing his classmates and making promises.

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

"Vote for me," he tells a little boy, "I'll make you steady committee officer." Quickly the parents get involved, coaching the kids, helping write their speeches. One dad who's with the police department basically wins the election for his son by arranging for a class trip on the city's monorail, which the kids love, and by giving his son little presents to hand out to every kid in the class moments before they vote.

But the kids own instincts are really interesting to watch too. There's this scene where one of the candidates-- a girl named Xiaofei is about to do a flute recital as part of the competition. Her two friends are going to dance a ballet with red scarves around her as she plays. Before she starts, though, Cheng Cheng tells a friend, "After Xiaofei performs, you must shout, that's terrible, got it?"

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

Which results in a whole group of kids, including Cheng Cheng and Luo Lei-- Luo Lei's the other candidate in this race-- taunting her, "Xiaofei, Xiaofei, slowest eater. Xiaofei, Xiaofei, rotten gossip."

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

Xiaofei looks around confused-- nothing like this has ever happened. And she's little, right, her feelings are right on her face. She blinks, she looks over to her teacher for help, she looks down and winces and starts crying. Another little girl in pink, at her desk, she starts crying too, witnessing this. The teacher calls a break, ushers Xiaofei from the room.

Cheng Cheng then goes to Xiaofei in the hallway and say, "I apologize to you for Luo Lei." As if Luo Lei was the one who organized the chanting, not him. Then he gets Luo Lei to apologize. And then, not only is Xiaofei crying, both the little boys, they both burst into tears also. Remember, they're all just eight years old.

[SPEAKING CHINESE]

The camera moves down the aisle of the classroom, and we see lots of other kids are crying as well. It's like they accidentally invented negative campaigning, on their own, in their own classroom, tried it out, and then realized just how mean and wrong it is. Something adults seem to forget sometimes.

Today on our show, we have stories of children thrust into the world of politics-- a world that was really built for adults with thicker skins. From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life, distributed by Public Radio International. I'm Ira Glass. Our show in three acts, these children take up presidential politics, global warming, and in our last act, they're put in charge of their own school-- make all the rules, including discipline. Stay with us.

Ira Glass

Act One, Trickle Down History. Now we move to a group of teachers in California, teachers who are sending their students out to understand a very American kind of politics-- presidential politics. Starlee Kine tells the story.

Starlee Kine

When I was in high school, my class took a trip to the Richard Nixon Library. I remember putting on a pair of large headphones that whispered snippets of the Watergate recordings into my ears. I remember being shown into this little carpeted room. Our teacher tells we're in luck, there's a very special guest there for us that day. We hope it's someone good. A man with a flattop haircut enters. His name is H.R. Haldeman. He has something important to tell us. We hope he wants to tell us that he is not the real special guest. We have no idea who he is.

If your history's a little foggy, H.R. Haldeman was President Nixon's Chief of Staff. He was a pal and a confidante. When recordings of Nixon in the White House were released, there were hours and hours of recorded conversation between the two of them on the phone, like a couple of mean girls plotting how to take over the rest of the school. After Watergate broke, it became clear that Haldeman was involved, and he turned in his resignation. It was a big enough deal that Nixon went on TV to announce it.

Starlee Kine

Nixon threw his good friend H.R. Haldeman under the bus. Haldeman was convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury. He served 18 months in prison, passing the time by working as a chemist in the prison's sewage treatment plant. Once he was released, he got involved in various business ventures. He became the owner of eight Sizzler steak houses. He receded into normal life, apparently only to resurface for the occasional public appearance in front of a room full of high school students.

That day in the library, we didn't know about any of Haldeman's history. I, for one, would have appreciated being told about the Sizzler steak house part up front. I remember clearly that Haldeman seemed like this sad, broken man. He wasn't wearing a suit, he didn't seem like someone with any authority, someone who was a part of history. It seemed clear that Haldeman was there that day to get us to stand in his shoes and see Watergate from his perspective. It was a very freaky Friday kind of moment-- see how hard it is to be an adult for a day.

And if you'll allow me this tangent, I was reminded of all this recently when I heard about something similar happening now in Simi Valley, California. That's where the library is for California's other Republican president, Ronald Reagan.

On a sunny Friday morning, I watch a class of fifth graders climb down off their school bus in their especially nice field trip clothes. They're here because the library does these reenactments where the students actually get to play Ronald Reagan and his various staff members-- stand in Reagan's shoes for the day. The kids file inside where a cheerful woman who works for the library stands in front of a large map with countries either red or blue.

Starlee Kine

It's obvious the kids have been studying Ronald Reagan all week, and in particular, the invasion of Grenada. One of the great things about tagging around on an elementary school field trip is you re-learn all the history lessons that you'd not only forgotten, but question whether you ever learned in the first place. Do you remember anything at all about the invasion of Grenada? Don't worry, they'll explain to us.

Starlee Kine

The kids go on to talk about the rebels who overthrew the Grenadian government in 1983 and about the group of 800 hundred or so American medical students who were stranded there and who became instant pawns in US Cold War politics.

Starlee Kine

That's right. We were afraid Cuba, Grenada, and Nicaragua, with their collective population of 13 million would come over, defeat the largest military in the world, and turn us all Communist. And then, just in case there's any doubt in the kids minds about how terrible this would be, a staff member gives them a quick primer on the evils of Communism.

Starlee Kine

The reason for all this studying up is that the kids are going to reenact the invasion. The class is divided up, with one third playing members of the Oval Office, one third playing the press, and one third playing the military. And one kid will play Ronald Reagan himself. The staff begin to hand out badges designating which kid is what.

Starlee Kine

The military commanders are next, followed by the press. The naming of one little girl as White House Bureau Chief prompts a classmate to mutter, "I knew it," under his breath. I ask him why, and he tells me that one time when they were in kindergarten, she played a news anchor, so-- his voice trails off. Without fail, the kids ooh and aah over every position that is called out.

The kids are ushered to a room with three closed doors. The library's really fancy. Flat screen TVs flash on, and actors playing nondescript officials explain the kids' mission, and the potential consequences of their actions.

Starlee Kine

The three doors swing open in unison revealing three different sets-- the Oval Office, the press room, and the command center of a battleship. Everyone goes to their assigned room. The battleship is amazing-- it's dimly lit with lots of flashing lights and a gadget with toggle switches in front of every chair. And if there's anything a kid loves, it's toggle switches.

Starlee Kine

The press corps is led through another door. A staff member flat out lies to them by telling them that the press room is every bit as exciting as a battleship. It looks like a hotel conference room. The best selling point the staff can muster is that the room is large.

Starlee Kine

The President and his cabinet head into a replica of the Reagan era Oval Office, complete with a jar of jelly beans on the desk, which the kids are instructed to not even think about eating.

Starlee Kine

Today's President Reagan is a blond fifth grader with an athletic build. My guess is he's a popular kid, but a benevolent one. He seems to take being named leader of the free world in stride, as though it's the sort of thing that happens to him often. Here's how it all works. The invasion is broken down into a series of A or B options. For instance, A, have diplomatic talks with Grenada, or B, evacuate the medical students. A, evacuate the medical students, or B, overthrow the Communist government. Each kid gets a vote, but President Reagan has final say.

Starlee Kine

The President inputs his answer into a dramatic red phone located right next to the jelly bean jar on his desk. Before they start, the kids were told that there aren't right or wrong answers, but the whole thing's rigged to make what Ronald Reagan did in 1983 look like the most appealing option. Each time the kids choose to do what he did, a bell goes off as though they've won a tropical vacation in Grenada, instead of an invasion.

Starlee Kine

Again and again, President Reagan makes the same decisions as, well, President Reagan. Everything is going great until there's a news flash. Apparently the kids in the press room have been hard at work. An actress playing a reporter appears on the screen.

Starlee Kine

Here's how it went down. In real life 1983, the press was somehow tipped off about the story in Grenada. President Reagan and the military had been planning a surprise attack. And so when the news got out, they had to decide whether to go ahead with the invasion, even though Grenada would be waiting for them, or to abort. President Reagan, again, like his predecessor President Reagan, decides to stick with the plan. The red phone dings. The US goes to war for three days.

After it's over, the staff does a little debrief with everyone. They talk with the kids about what happened, pointing out how it was especially bad when they lost the element of surprise.

Starlee Kine

The staff ask the kids if the press had a right to tell the public. They go over the nuts and bolts of what freedom of the press means, and decide that what the reporters did was legal.

Starlee Kine

No one pointed out the those 19 soldiers might have lived if the Oval Office had done things differently, or that invading countries is a dangerous business and casualties tend to come with the territory. Instead, one by one, you can see it on the kids' faces-- how it could have been perfect if only it wasn't for the press. And then the staff tells the kids they're going to rejoin their classmates, the ones that were in the other room playing reporters.

Starlee Kine

Everyone is trying to get in as much glaring and as much head shaking as possible. The phrase element of surprise and 19 dead comes up again, and again, and again. The kids seem genuinely upset.

Starlee Kine

It's a strange experience watching little kids struggling to become adults before their time. They were too young to understand exactly what had just happened, but old enough to feel guilt about the blood on their hands. It surely must have been the first time in their lives that they'd been accused of causing a person's death, and yet they took to it so naturally.

I know Reagan isn't Nixon and Grenada isn't Watergate. And that difference is particularly stark when you've been to both their respective libraries like I have. In Reagan's, he's celebrated as a winner. In Nixon's, the tone is apologetic. But both libraries are saying the same thing-- see it my way.

I recently called up the Nixon Library to ask them about the day my class met H.R. Haldeman. They dug up an old program and they also sent me a list of questions the adults gave us to ask him. They might as well have been lifted straight off the transcript of the Watergate hearings. Why didn't you burn the White House tapes? How do you think the 18 and a half minute gap occurred? Why did your critics want you out? Are you sorry?

From the second Haldeman opened his mouth, we could tell he was angry, and that this wasn't like any field trip we'd ever been on before. He hadn't prepared a speech or anything like that. He would start barking his answers at us before we had even finished getting the questions out. An LA Times article about the visit quotes him as saying, "For Pete's sake, don't believe what you read in history books just because of the fact that those words are printed."

He told us he was improperly convicted and never had a chance during his trial because of the so-called judge. He kept reminding us of all the good Nixon had done, that we shouldn't be mad at Nixon for Haldeman's downfall-- it wasn't his fault. Even the proximity of where he was standing felt off. He was too vulnerable and close, as though he was practically sitting down on the floor with us. Despite his gruffness, I do actually remember feeling really sorry for him.

He seemed to care more about what we thought about him than what our teachers or any other adults did. They had already formed their opinions. He meant nothing to us, and that meant something to him. It meant someday, when we told our kids about Bob Haldeman, history wouldn't have to win just because those words are printed. And it worked. I liked him. I didn't think he was innocent, but I felt bad he wasn't.

Different school groups cycled through the Reagan Library throughout the day. I have to wait until the last one before I get to see what happens when a kid tries to alter the script.

Starlee Kine

That kid is William Miller, a skinny boy with glasses who's playing Ronald Reagan this time. The way his suit jacket hangs on him reminds me of the kind of movie where the kid is turned into an adult, and then back into a kid. William is quite and thoughtful. Each time he is called upon to make his decision, he adds his own special touch. He insists on consulting with the little girl playing Vice President Bush. It's hard not to see it as half sound political strategy on the President's part and half crush.

Starlee Kine

This group tackles the same questions as the first group-- whether to discuss or evacuate, and then whether to evacuate or invade. As the theatrics start to pick up, William looks worried. He quietly reads the library's instructions to himself.

Starlee Kine

There's a beeping sound like a time bomb is about to go off. President Reagan again consults his VP, shooting a look at the clock.

Starlee Kine

That sensible argument he just made about the Soviet Union wasn't fed to him by an adult-- he came up with it on his own. And it's at this point that William goes off script. He goes against the real Reagan. He decides not to invade, to just get the Americans out. Feeling good about his choice, President Reagan picks up the red phone and punches in A. The sound that comes out of the phone is one that anyone who ever watched a game show on TV will immediately recognize as the sound of being wrong.

Starlee Kine

President Reagan soldiers on, despite now knowing that he'll be overtaken by the tide of history, no matter what he does. Soon the same fake reporter comes on again, saying that the press has leaked the story. The kids rush to the President's desk.

Starlee Kine

William agrees. They should abort the mission. He figures they can go back to the original plan of just evacuating the students, and then invade later when they've gotten the element of surprise back. He warily inputs his answer into the red phone.

Starlee Kine

President Reagan looks stricken. His coat seems bigger than ever. Again the class files out. Again it's the press kids versus everyone else. Again there's the chaos and blame. All through the library's lobby are clusters of ten year olds fighting to the death.

Starlee Kine

President Reagan is slowly getting swallowed up by the crowd. Adults can sometimes put on this big show, letting you make the decisions, letting you be in charge, when what they really want is to convince you that their way is best, that they're not bad people, that the decisions they made were the right ones, and that if you were in their position, you'd have done it the same way. They'd really like you to believe that, maybe so they can believe it too.

Ira Glass

Starlee Kine, lives in Los Angeles. Coming up, children vote to decide all the rules in their school, including can they play video games while at school? What they decide in a minute from Chicago Public Radio and Public Radio International, when our program continues.

It's This American Life, I'm Ira Glass. Each week on our show, of course, we choose a theme, bring you different kinds of stories on that theme. Today's show, kid politics. Stories or what happens when adults-- usually educators-- put kids in the hot seat and tell them to grapple with adult political decisions. We've arrived at act two of our show.

Ira Glass

Act Two, Climates Change, People Don't. I met this really great, really smart kid who's into politics this summer. All summer I was watching a lot of Glenn Beck, and I went to that rally that he had in Washington D.C. And so I'm at the rally and I'm wandering around, and I'm talking to people in the crowd.

Ira Glass

That's Erin Gustafson, high school freshman, with her older sister, Sarah, and her mom, Michelle. They've driven up from the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia for the rally.

Ira Glass

We talked about the kinds of things that you talk about at a Glenn Beck rally. is the President a socialist? The Gustafsons don't think he is. Are they alarmed over the direction the country's going in? They definitely are. They are free market, small government types-- against saving big banks, against the deficit. And then I got on the subject of global warming with 14 year old Erin.

Ira Glass

The number of Americans who believe that global warming is real has fallen, and the decline is dramatic. Back in 2006, according to a Pew Research Center study, 79% of the public said there's solid evidence that the Earth is getting warmer. In just three years, the number fell to 57%. Other polls show a similar drop.

So climate change activists and scientists are trying to turn it around in a bunch of different ways, and part of that fight is in the classroom. They want to win over kids Erin's age. The National Science Foundation and NASA are each developing curricula to teach climate change in schools. Meanwhile, on the other side of the fight, bills have been introduced in Kentucky, Oklahoma, and passed in South Dakota-- Texas, by the way, has this too-- urging teachers to teach both sides in the climate change debate. The South Dakota bill declared carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, but rather a highly beneficial ingredient for all plant life.

And with that fight for the hearts and minds of people like Erin and all of her peers in mind, we booked Erin into a studio last week at public radio station WMRA in Virginia.

Ira Glass

At the same time that we had her, we had in a studio in Colorado, at public radio station KGHU, a scientist named Roberta Johnson who develops curricula as Executive Director of the National Earth Science Teacher Association, and who studies the climate at the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

Ira Glass

Dr. Johnson and Erin Gustafson agreed to come into the studio to do a little experiment that we proposed to both of them. Dr. Johnson would run through the very best material that she thinks teachers have to convince students that global warming is real. And Erin would tell her and us if it was convincing, if it won her over. Was there anything a scientist could say to convince a kid who's already skeptical?

Up until now, Erin says, her schools haven't devoted a lot of time to teaching climate change, and it's not really a big subject for Glenn Beck, she says, so most of what she knows is based in her own curiosity, reading she's done poking around the internet. They both actually were pretty psyched for this.

Ira Glass

OK, at this point Dr. Johnson got into some details that both Erin and I took awhile to grasp, so I'm going to just summarize for you to move things along. Basically, Roberta Johnson was saying we can explain the way temperature and carbon dioxide rose and fell over 420,000 years by looking at how the Earth was tilting-- its position relative to the sun.

When the Earth would wobble towards the sun, there'd be more heat and carbon dioxide. When the Earth would wobble away a little bit, less heat, less carbon dioxide. It all matched up until now. Just based on the Earth's tilt and orientation, the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere should now be a lot lower than it is. We are 35% higher than we should be. What's the cause? The logical culprit, she says, is human beings and the machines we've made that spew carbon dioxide-- CO2.

Ira Glass

What Erin's talking about are arguments against global warming that you read. That the Earth got really warm back in the 12th century, and it wasn't greenhouse gasses causing that-- maybe that's just happening again. And that satellite photos showed Arctic ice melting in one set of photos, but in another, didn't look so bad. She also asked, why have winters been colder and snowfall greater, if climate change is already, supposedly, taking effect. And she very delicately asked Dr. Johnson about Climategate.

Ira Glass

One by one, Dr. Johnson answered each of these questions. Yes, it got warmer in the 12th century, but for reasons that we can name, and it was nowhere near as warm as today. Yes, it might be colder in any given winter, but that is just the randomness of weather, that's not the climate. Yes, there's more snow now, because a warmer planet means more water vapor trapped in the atmosphere, which means storms of all kinds become more intense including snow. Yes, climate scientists said some things in their stolen emails that might seem at first to be damning, but several different commissions working independently all verified that they did not tamper with the data or the peer review process. Yes, the Arctic ice in photos might fluctuate, but the overall trend is clear.

Ira Glass

Act Three, Minor Authorities. What if you ran a school and you had the kids vote and decide on all the rules? They decide on all the discipline, decide which classes should be taught, what would happen if you don't show up for class, can you nap in school. Not to be harsh, but what if the inmates ran the asylum?

Well, there's a movement in alternative education called the free school movement. Typically there are no courses. Each kid studies what he or she wants independently. At The Brooklyn Free School, for instance, a teacher can offer a class, or the kids can vote for some class they want created. There are no tests, no homework, there aren't even grade levels-- you know, first grade, second grade, all that. And the kids decide everything about how the school is run.

If this sounds nuts, you should know that since The Brooklyn Free School was started seven years ago, nearly all its graduates have gone on to normal accredited colleges. We wanted to see what happens when the kids make all the decisions, so we headed over to The Brooklyn Free School.

Ira Glass

Naturally, to record at the school, we had to get permission from the authorities there-- the kids themselves.

Ira Glass

Glad we got that six year old on our side there. We're in the school gym, it's about 50 kids, which is the whole school, age four to 19. A mix of kids who didn't do well in other schools, some behavior problem kids, some kids of professionals and crunchy parents. It's actually very diverse. There's a short discussion about whether they want to have us in the school.

Ira Glass

After a few minutes, there's a vote.

Ira Glass

And because that passed, Jyllian Gunther has this story.

Jyllian Gunther

Meetings are so central to The Brooklyn Free School that the only requirement at the school besides showing up is that once a week you attend what is known as the all school democratic meeting. But there are other meetings too. Meetings for teens, meetings for younger kids, impromptu meetings.

Meetings can be called by anyone, and they are-- sometimes as many as six a day. At times it can feel like a constant session of Congress, which is by design. Free schools are modeled after our country's approach to government. Give each person a vote and the collective decisions will be what's best for everyone.

So how does it work when the voters are kids? There was the meeting where the whole school decided that a boy who was always acting out should get constant supervision, so kids signed up for hourly shifts to watch him and keep him in line. Or the one where the kids called a meeting on the school's director for eating in a no food zone. Or the time a student called a meeting-- get this-- on herself for missing too many days of school. She was asked by her peers to present a case for why she shouldn't be kicked out of school.

I happen to know all this because my close friend Katherine is a co-founder and social worker at the school. The first thing you notice about The Brooklyn Free School, it doesn't look anything like a school. It's a five story brownstone. The gym used to be the living room, the dining room is a library, a former bathroom is the band room. There's an art room and a handful of classrooms, which all look like a cross between a preschool and a teenager's rec room. In the teen lounge, teenagers lie on the floor reading The Brothers Karamazov out loud.

Jyllian Gunther

Some other kids go to the store to buy Tic Tacs. Some kids are playing cards. On the second floor, Kai was bothering Martin and the younger kids are having a meeting to resolve it.

Jyllian Gunther

The first few meetings I watched were not impressive. One Wednesday I went to an all school meeting. The topic of the day was the art room.

Jyllian Gunther

Specifically, the age old problem of kids making a mess and not cleaning up. There was a long debate about how to fix this, some proposals, and a lot of finger pointing. The kids mostly seem bored. An hour later, nothing was decided and the meeting was adjourned. To me, the whole thing just looked like a waste of time. I wondered how much math, and science, and reading could these kids be doing instead of all these meetings?

I needed to see more, and I did. Over a month I saw all kinds of meetings at the school, and the one that really tested the question, if kids are in charge, do they make the best decisions, was the meeting about the no screens week rule.

Jyllian Gunther

To understand the no screens week rule, you should know that for the staff it's a badge of honor. A few years ago, the entire school outlawed using any electronic device with a screen. No computers, no cell phones, no video games. The kids thought they were too distracting. The little ones were addicted. And so to break the addiction, every other week would be a no screens week, and if you wanted to get on a computer to do some research on a no screens week, you needed special permission from a staff member, which was a hassle. At a teens only meeting, a 15 year old named Malia dropped this bomb.

Jyllian Gunther

The no screens rule has been challenged before, but never successfully. Those in favor were quick to speak up, like [? Aran, ?] a 19 year old in an evolution t-shirt depicting a monkey, a human, and a robot.

Jyllian Gunther

The adults don't agree, they want the restriction on the screens to stay. But they're outnumbered by the kids by a three to one margin. Lily, a teacher at the school, tries to rein them in.

Jyllian Gunther

I should say here, as the meeting is happening, two kids are texting and one is playing a game on his Nintendo DS, which is fine, it is a screens week. [? Aram, ?] 12, is Malia's younger brother, and he thinks his sister's proposal is risky.

Jyllian Gunther

Then a student says that all this is besides the point, because the rule itself is completely inconsistent with the school's philosophy. If you can trust someone to learn what they need to know without encouraging them, shouldn't you trust them to know when to turn a computer off? After 20 minutes of debate, a vote is taken. Six people abstain, three people vote against, 11 for.

Jyllian Gunther

The result of this meaning-- all screens, all the time-- is this an example of kids knowing what's best for them? Seems like a potential disaster to me and every other adult in the room. And right after the meeting, when I ask [? Aran, ?] the kid who was most vocal about needing his computer to do research, he confided, well, he'd also be playing some video games. A few weeks later, I check in with Lily, a teacher who'd voted against the policy to find out how things were going.

Jyllian Gunther

Which means the system's working, for now.

Late one Wednesday near the end of school everyone's cleaning up and getting ready to leave, and suddenly word goes up and down the stairs that someone's calling an impromptu all school meeting, a big deal in the arsenal of democratic meetings. Anyone can interrupt the whole school at any time and hold court.

Jyllian Gunther

Confusion sets in. A 10 year old says, "I don't think you should waste our time on this, it's crazy to call this meeting." And another student asks, "Why not call a smaller meeting with whoever did it?" Despite the fact that I heard a lot from Malia in the short time I was at school, she's not known for calling meetings or crying wolf. Malia says it's about two brothers, [? Cruz ?] and [? Seoul. ?]

Jyllian Gunther

That's [? Kirren, ?] seven. He and everyone else look over at [? Cruz ?] and [? Seoul ?] waiting for an answer, but [? Cruz ?] is only just nine himself, and [? Seoul ?] is 10. And sitting in Katherine's lap, the brothers appear even younger than they are, and they look a little lost and embarrassed. Katherine breaks the silence.

Jyllian Gunther

Malia offers a tasteful and purposefully vague explanation of the word whore. The kids get that the word is bad. While it's clear that Malia's angry, it's not entirely clear what the purpose of the meeting is. Does she want them punished? Does she want an apology? Lily tries to gently steer Malia to a conclusion.

Jyllian Gunther

Then Malia improvises something remarkable. She turns the focus of the meeting away from herself.

Jyllian Gunther

Nearly every hand in the room goes up.

Jyllian Gunther

She asks people to talk about it.

Jyllian Gunther

Malia proposes they meet again tomorrow to come up with consequences for calling someone a bad name. They all agree. But they didn't do it. In the end, no new rules went into effect, they didn't even meet. When I found out, I was genuinely surprised. One day, this was a big deal to everyone, the next day forgotten.

In the weeks I was at the school, a lot of meetings ended this way. One proposal about kids being too noisy outside and bothering the neighbors, a smaller meeting about the democratic meetings themselves and how to improve them, and a bigger meeting where those improvements were struck down all together. Another about kids in the kitchen not eating other kids food. That first meeting I attended about cleaning the art room.

A lot of talk with no conclusion. When I asked my friend Katherine about this, she says that's part of the plan.

Jyllian Gunther

When I see Malia a few days later, I ask her what happened. Why no follow-up meeting? She explains, another meeting wasn't necessary. She'd said what she had to, everyone listened, other people spoke up too, and she feels better.

Jyllian Gunther

When she came into the school five years ago, Malia was scared to say what was on her mind. Over the years, she's learned to speak up, and she's seen that lead to change. She admits the meetings can be boring and frustrating, but she takes the authority she's given by the school very seriously. All the kids do. Malia feels bad for adults, she said, because they can't just call a meeting and take a vote at their jobs, or wherever, to fix something that bothers them. I get that. Once you're grown up, democracy is not so pure.

Ira Glass

Jyllian Gunther. She's a filmmaker currently finishing a film about an new public high school in Brooklyn.

[MUSIC - "IF THE KIDS ARE UNITED (THEY'LL NEVER BE DIVIDED)" BY SHAM-69]

Our program was produced today by Sarah Koenig, with Alex Blumberg, Ben Calhoun, Jane Feltes, Lisa Pollak, Jonathan Menjivar, Robyn Semien, Alissa Shipp, Nancy Updike. Senior producer for our show is Julie Snyder. Seth Lind is our production manager. Emily Condon's our office manager. Production help from Shawn Wen and Eric Mennel.

[ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS]

That amazing film, Please Vote For Me, about the third grade election, originally aired on Independent Lens on PBS. You can buy a copy online. We link from our website, thisamericanlife.org. We say goodbye this week to our intern, Shawn Wen, who's been great to work with, and who we wish the very best.

This American Life is distributed by Public Radio International. WBEZ management oversight for our show by our boss, Mr. Torey Malatia, who's been puzzling over the every-changing FCC rules, until he finally arrivede at this:

Ira Glass

I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.

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