745: Getting Out
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Prologue: Prologue
David Kestenbaum
Kirk Johnson
Ajmal, can you hear me?
Ajmal
Hello?
Kirk Johnson
Hello?
Ajmal
Yes, I can hear you.
Kirk Johnson
OK, so are you still in front of the Canadian or not?
Ajmal
Yeah, in front of the Canadian, in the water.
Kirk Johnson
You're in the water right now?
Ajmal
Yeah.
David Kestenbaum
This is a phone call between a man in California and a man standing in a canal outside the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan. That'll all make more sense in a minute. We had a totally different show planned for you today.
But then, we came across this phone call. And it just seemed important to put it on the air now. It's from Monday, before the explosions around the airport that killed dozens of people.
But it's a snapshot, in a way, from the last hours of this war, as the US leaves Afghanistan, when who would get out and who would not was all still being decided hour by hour. So what we're going to do on the show today is we're going to hear the story of that phone call. And then we're going to play you some other stories about getting out-- about people trying to extricate themselves from seemingly impossible situations.
So the first guy you heard on the call, the guy in California, is Kirk Johnson. We've had him on the show before. And when things started to fall apart in Afghanistan, he reached out to us, because years ago, he did reconstruction work in Iraq for the US government. And since then, for a long time now, he's been trying to get people in Iraq and Afghanistan who have worked with the US government and who are in danger out of those countries.
He started an organization back in 2007 called The List Project. So these past weeks, Kirk has been on the phone constantly. And on Monday night, with his kids asleep in the other room, he had this series of phone calls which he recorded with the man you heard. His name is Ajmal.
And Kirk is trying to talk him through the crowds, and the confusion, and chaos around the airport in Afghanistan to try to get Ajmal and his family past all the barriers, hopefully onto a plane and out of the country. All of this is happening over the phone from half a world away. Nancy Updike here has known Kirk for many years. She talked to him about what happened. Here's Nancy.
Act One: Act One
Nancy Updike
Kirk didn't know Ajmal before Monday night. He never met him. He just heard this was a person who needed help-- one of the many people who needed help, whose names have been piling up in these threads Kirk has been on all week-- group chats with US veterans, active military, current and former diplomats and aid workers, some Afghan citizens of the US and other countries, all on their phones day and night, trying to help Afghans get out.
Kirk Johnson
Ajmal, can you hear me?
Nancy Updike
Monday night, Kirk called Ajmal.
Ajmal
I can hear you.
Kirk Johnson
OK, so are you still in front of the Canadian, or not?
Ajmal
Yeah, in front of the Canadian, in the water.
Kirk Johnson
You're in the water right now?
Ajmal
Yes.
Nancy Updike
The Canadian is a Canadian soldier, and the water is the canal right outside the Kabul airport.
Ajmal
[? This ?] is not [INAUDIBLE], don't know--
Nancy Updike
The only thing Ajmal is trying to do here, the whole thing, is to slog his way to within earshot of the one Canadian soldier he can see and make himself heard above the crowd.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Ajmal
Canada!
Nancy Updike
Ajmal worked for an NGO funded by the United States. And now, he and his family need to leave-- him, his parents, and his brother. They're luckier than most of the people around them, because they have citizenship in another country. He and his family are all Canadian citizens.
And please picture this young Canadian, Ajmal. Kirk sent me a photo of him in the canal. Ajmal is 27 years old. Pretty sure he could pass for 19 without his goatee.
He's slight, big glasses, wearing his backpack in front of him on his chest, like a nervous tourist. He is knee-deep in water. On one side of the canal is a growing crowd of Afghans. On the other are soldiers. And behind the soldiers is the path to get into the airport.
Ajmal
Do-- do you know their name, or no?
Kirk Johnson
The-- no. The soldier's name? No.
Ajmal
Please wait, OK?
Kirk Johnson
OK, I'm waiting.
Nancy Updike
Exactly how Ajmal came to be standing in a canal is, hours earlier, he'd received an email with instructions for what to do, how to get out. He forwarded the email to Kirk.
Kirk Johnson
Here's the email that Ajmal got at 3:01 AM from-- from the Canadian government.
Nancy Updike
Kirk read the key part.
Kirk Johnson
Important instructions-- go to The Baron Hotel immediately-- all caps. Do not wear Western style clothing-- all caps. Be prepared to wait for many hours. Once inside, go to the garden and sit under the Canadian flag and wait for Canadian officials. Bring food and water, if possible.
Nancy Updike
That's the official process here. Get yourself to a hotel garden, sit down under a flag. Do this immediately somehow. Bring water. Ajmal and his family had gone to the place they thought was The Baron Hotel, but it was the wrong place. No Canadian officials they could see-- seemed to be all British people.
So Kirk drew a map, looking at Google Maps, with the route Ajmal, his parents, and his brother needed to take, through more crowds, to get to the right place. The canal, believe it or not, was the right place-- or as close as they were able to get. The canal is next to The Baron Hotel.
And there was a Canadian soldier there. They could see him. He had a little Canadian flag on his uniform. But he kept stepping away.
Kirk Johnson
OK, is he back?
Ajmal
Yeah, they are talking with the [INAUDIBLE].
Kirk Johnson
He's talking to someone else right now?
Ajmal
He's talking with someone else. I'm waiting for him.
Kirk Johnson
OK. Jesus Christ.
Nancy Updike
Ajmal is trying to get the soldier's attention, because, as I keep saying, Ajmal is a citizen of Canada. He is not a supplicant. He has the right papers. But Ajmal, who comes across as a cautious, rule-following sort of person, with his face mask pulled neatly under his chin in case he's ever inside again, that young man is stuck in a canal.
Kirk Johnson
I'll be patient. Don't--
Ajmal
Excuse me? Hey, Canada? Canada?
Kirk Johnson
Oh my god.
Nancy Updike
Other people in this same situation might have no trouble bellowing to get someone's attention. Soft-spoken Ajmal is saying, excuse me, excuse me, Canada? The soldier is talking to other people or walking even further away. Ajmal asks Kirk what words he should be calling out.
Ajmal
What's a good word to call them? Because they're a bit far.
Kirk Johnson
When you You get an opportunity, Ajmal, OK-- can you hear me?
Ajmal
Then I call you?
Kirk Johnson
No, I'm going to stay on the line with you. When he finishes with this guy, you need to say that there is a friend of a Canadian minister on the phone. Can you--
Ajmal
OK, OK, OK.
Kirk Johnson
OK? A friend of a Canadian minister on the phone.
Nancy Updike
It's true. Kirk, through his wife, is friends with a Canadian member of parliament, a minister, who, at that point, was fast asleep and had no idea this was happening. Kirk is trying to think of anything he can tell Ajmal to say to get the soldier's attention. Namedropping? Yes, sure, definitely.
Ajmal
[? Yes, ?] [? just-- ?] just a minute.
Kirk Johnson
Where is he?
Ajmal
Uh, he left [INAUDIBLE]. I'm waiting for him.
Kirk Johnson
OK, I don't want you to just say Canada. I want you to say, I'm a Canadian citizen.
Ajmal
OK, OK.
Kirk Johnson
He doesn't know me. He's putting trust in me. I don't know him. I've already pushed him to fight through the crowd and jump into the canal.
Nancy Updike
That was your idea, to get in the canal?
Kirk Johnson
Yes.
Nancy Updike
Huh.
Kirk Johnson
By the time of that phone call, that was already-- when he got to the back end of that crowd and saw thousands of people, he said, there's-- I can't do this. There's no-- I have my parents here. We can't get to the front. We're just going to have to try another day, or wait for you to work your connections to get the Canadians to come out and find us.
And I told him-- this is over text-- but I was like, they're not going to come out for you. You have to push through that crowd. And his sister was on the thread, and a couple other people who had been trying to help him.
And they were messaging me, saying, go easy on him. He was in the hospital last week with a panic attack. You know, they were basically saying, he's already at the breaking point.
But I knew that, if he couldn't get within earshot of a Canadian soldier, he had-- there was nothing. Not knowing, if he gives up today, whether or not the doors will be completely shut tomorrow. And the other thing that is weighing on me, but that I'm not telling him, is this dread of one rogue Talib opening fire into that crowd, one IED going off in that crowd.
Nancy Updike
Less than 24 hours after we talked, a bomb was detonated outside the airport. And someone started shooting into the crowd.
Kirk Johnson
So everything came down to trying to get him in the right point on Earth where his voice would be loud enough to be heard, and strong enough to be listened to.
You are in the right position.
Ajmal
But I think they are leaving.
Kirk Johnson
What-- what do you-- OK.
Ajmal
I think they're leaving the spot. Please, please talk to them.
Kirk Johnson
You have-- you have to shout, I'm a Canadian citizen. Do it right now, if you see them.
Ajmal
Canadian!
Kirk Johnson
Not, Canadian. Say, Canadian citizen. You can't just say Canadian, Ajmal. You have to say Canadian citizen.
Ajmal
I'll call them.
Kirk Johnson
OK.
Ajmal
Canadian citizen!
Kirk Johnson
Keep saying that.
Ajmal
Canadian citizen!
Kirk Johnson
[BLEEP]
Nancy Updike
If you have sharp ears, you can hear Kirk swearing under his breath all during this call, basically cursing his way through the stress.
Kirk Johnson
What's happening?
Ajmal
I think the [INAUDIBLE] is increasing. I don't know what's happening.
Nancy Updike
He's saying the crowd is increasing. It's increasing.
Ajmal
The crowds are increasing.
Kirk Johnson
I know.
Ajmal
--crowd is increasing [INAUDIBLE]--
Kirk Johnson
I know, but you are in the right-- you are in the right position. You can't give up right now. You--
Ajmal
OK, so I am inside, so-- but my family is down. They are-- they are back.
Kirk Johnson
OK. [GROANS] How far away are they?
Nancy Updike
Kirk is groaning, because he didn't realize Ajmal was separated from his family, his parents, and his brother at this point. Even if they're not that far away right now, while Ajmal and Kirk are focused on connecting with this soldier, Ajmal's family could get pushed out of sight as the crowd keeps swelling and pushing forward. A bad scenario would be Ajmal ends up getting out, but his family stays lost in the throng.
On these group threads, these chats Kirk is following, they are full of stories of family members getting separated. Ajmal hadn't wanted to bring his parents and his brother into this gross canal unless it was clear they were going to get out. He said the bottom of the canal had these slippery stones, and he worried one of his parents would fall and injure themselves. Now there's no time for Ajmal to break off and go get them. He has to keep trying to reach this soldier.
Kirk Johnson
You can't lose that spot. You have that-- you had that soldier right in front of you. He's going to come back.
Ajmal
So here-- he's so far. I think it's impossible. Is there any other way?
Kirk Johnson
You have to stay in that spot and wait for him to come back. The fact that you just sent me that picture--
Ajmal
I'll wait-- yeah, I'm waiting.
Kirk Johnson
OK.
Ajmal
So I will call you back, OK?
Kirk Johnson
Call me back as soon as he gets close, OK?
Ajmal
OK, OK, OK.
Nancy Updike
Just in case anyone is finding their ire at this point focused on Canada, I want to state the obvious and say that, in the big picture, this was our show, the United States-- our plans, our timeline. Those were dictating the overall scene at the airport. Ajmal and Kirk got back on the phone. They'd been at it for almost six hours.
Kirk Johnson
Do not let him go away without saying, you're a Canadian citizen, and a minister is on the phone.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Nancy Updike
A long minute goes by where Kirk can't tell what's happening.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Ajmal keeps asking him, please wait, please wait.
Ajmal
Please wait here.
Kirk Johnson
Don't-- don't worry about me. Just do not let him leave without saying what I told you.
Nancy Updike
Another half minute. Ajmal is fighting off despair. The soldier isn't responding to him.
Ajmal
So he is not responding, he just told me.
Kirk Johnson
What did you say?
Ajmal
He is so [INAUDIBLE].
Kirk Johnson
Are you still close to him?
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
Nancy Updike
Another agonizing minute and a half--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
--and then suddenly--
Kirk Johnson
Ajmal, can you hear me?
Man
Hello?
Kirk Johnson
Hello, who is this?
Man
Hello?
Kirk Johnson
Yes, who am I talking to?
Man
Who's this?
Kirk Johnson
This is Kirk Johnson. I've served with USAID in Iraq--
Man
[INAUDIBLE]
Kirk Johnson
--sorry, can you hear me?
Man
Yes, I can hear you.
Kirk Johnson
OK, you have four Canadian citizens there. I'm calling on behalf of Mélanie Joly, who is a minister of economic development for Canada. You have four Canadian citizens. They were asked to go in there right now. And they've been pushed back several times so far.
Man
Yeah, we're going to process them. In the meantime, there's a lot of people here. We will process them, OK?
Kirk Johnson
I understand, but I just need your assurance that they're going to get through, because one of the group is in poor health. And I know that Mélanie Joly is--
Man
Yeah, yeah, we will--
Kirk Johnson
--she's-- the minister is wanting-- she wants it--
Man
They will get through. They just--
Kirk Johnson
I need to be able to tell the minister that they're through.
Man
Yeah, I understand what you're saying, sir. I'm going to look at his paperwork, and they will be able to get through, OK?
Kirk Johnson
OK, I'm going to stay on the line. Thank you for doing that, sir. I appreciate it.
Man
--need to be patient. It's--
Kirk Johnson
I know-- I know you got your hands full.
Man
--pretty hectic here, so we have to be patient, OK?
Kirk Johnson
I know. I'll tell them to say--
Man
Tell them to be patient.
Kirk Johnson
I'm grateful to you for your help, sir. Thank you.
Man
OK. I'll give him the phone back.
Kirk Johnson
OK, I'm going to stay on the line.
Man
[INAUDIBLE]
Nancy Updike
It's not clear if the Canadian minister gambit carried any sway with this soldier. He mostly sounds like he wanted to get off the phone and get back to work. But Ajmal finally had his attention.
And what a frightening degree of perseverance it took Ajmal to get to this point, where he could just hand someone his papers. And even perseverance most likely wouldn't have been enough without luck, without connections to these groups Kirk and others are part of, or to someone else with power. How many people in the crowd around Ajmal had perseverance, even courage, but none of the luck?
Kirk Johnson
OK, Ajmal--
Ajmal
Hello?
Kirk Johnson
Yeah, can you hear me?
Ajmal
Yes.
Kirk Johnson
OK, get your family close to you. OK? I don't care--
Ajmal
Tell my family to come?
Kirk Johnson
Tell-- tell them to come. You may have to wait a while, but do not-- do not be separate from them now.
Ajmal
Yes.
Kirk Johnson
Do not move where you are, OK?
Ajmal
OK, thank you, sir.
Kirk Johnson
OK.
Ajmal
OK, OK.
Nancy Updike
Kirk and I did this interview a day and a half after this call with Ajmal ended. And Kirk was still waiting to hear if Ajmal and his family made it out. Then, finally, he got a text from him. It came through as Kirk and I were finishing up our interview.
Kirk Johnson
He texted me-- hang on-- oh my god.
Nancy Updike
What?
Kirk Johnson
They just got on a plane. They're--
Nancy Updike
Ajmal and his family, they're on a plane?
Kirk Johnson
Yes.
Nancy Updike
There's one part of Ajmal's story that took Kirk's breath away, even in the retelling. It was the way Ajmal ended up finding his brother after he'd made contact with the soldier, because Ajmal's family, as Kirk had feared, had gotten lost in the crowd.
Kirk Johnson
You don't have to have brothers to feel this, but my brothers are my best friends. And the way that I subsequently found out he was able to-- to get them was that he just called from the canal into this crowd, asking his fellow Afghans to start calling his brother's name. And they all started shouting it out. And that's how they found his-- his brother and parents. And so they then got into the canal from there and joined him.
You know, like, I want to feel-- I want to feel like, proud about this, and feel like this is a good story. But it's just-- there's so much more suffering that has happened, and people that aren't getting through. I don't want people who hear this to think that-- you know, people who are sort of discomfited by what they're hearing about this, who may not really be close to the situation or understand what's going on, to be like, oh, hey, I heard it's bad, but hey, all right, good. Now, this guy-- this has a happy ending.
This has a happy ending for this guy and his family, and for a small percentage of the lucky few that are getting through. I-- I fear that we're-- you know, we're not going to really see the full toll of this when this is all over. And we're-- we're just about at the end of this whole disaster, and at the start of something much darker, I fear.
Nancy Updike
I fear that, too.
David Kestenbaum
Nancy Updike is one of the producers of our show. Coming up, some of our favorite stories we've run about getting out, including a choose your own adventure story about getting out of a relationship. Yeah, choose your own adventure on the radio, somehow. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.
It's This American Life. I'm David Kestenbaum, in for Ira Glass. This week on our show, getting out-- stories of people making it out of seemingly impossible situations, or trying to, anyway.
Act Two: You Can Check Out Anytime You Like, But You Can Never Leave
David Kestenbaum
Act two-- You Can Check Out Any Time You Like, But You Can Never Leave. So one of the things about trying to get out of an intense situation is that it can feel like every little decision you make might take you down the wrong path. Back when she was a teenager, one of our co-workers, Elna Baker, found herself in that position.
She was trapped in a hotel room with her siblings, held there by a stranger. What happened was, their family was all staying at this Marriott. But they're such a big family that the parents and the oldest kid were in one room. Elna and the three other kids were next door in their own room.
There was Elna, who was 14 at the time, Julia, who was 10, Briton, who was eight, and Jill, who was five. Elna was sharing a bed with her. Elna, who was in eighth grade at the time, was more or less in charge.
And then one night, they're all asleep. It's the middle of the night. She told this all to Ira.
Elna Baker
My memory is that-- it's like-- I saw like, a sliver of light, which is what woke me up, and the sound of the door closing. And there was the feeling that there was someone standing at the foot of the bed.
Ira Glass
Mhm.
Elna Baker
So I reached over, and I turned the lamp on. And there was this woman.
Ira Glass
Wow.
Elna Baker
And she looked startled to see us. And the first thing she said was, you're just children. I didn't expect you to be children.
Ira Glass
So that's pretty creepy.
Elna Baker
Right.
Ira Glass
What did you make of her saying that?
Elna Baker
I instantly felt like this is an unsafe situation.
Ira Glass
Yeah. Describe her.
Elna Baker
I remember she was my mom's age. So she was probably in her 40s.
Ira Glass
Mhm.
Elna Baker
And brown hair, white, kind of like, frumpy-looking, like somebody you'd sit next to on the bus or something.
Ira Glass
Did she seem menacing?
Elna Baker
She seemed really distressed. She was crying, too.
Ira Glass
She was crying?
Elna Baker
She was crying, yeah. She cried the whole time she was there.
Ira Glass
She's crying, and she said, you're children. I didn't expect you to be children.
Elna Baker
Yeah.
Ira Glass
And do the other kids get up?
Elna Baker
Everyone's wide awake. I distinctly remember my little brothers' and sisters' faces, because their eyes were just huge. But no one said anything.
Ira Glass
And are they sitting up, too, or are they just laying flat still?
Elna Baker
They're still laying flat. Nobody moved.
Ira Glass
So what happens next?
Elna Baker
She's talking, right? This isn't how it was supposed to be. And she's also crying. And she's talking to herself. I remember it being very hard to follow what she was saying.
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
And eventually, I said, I'm sorry, I think you have the wrong room. And she started to cry. And she said, I know, I know. I do this, I do this. I don't know why I do this.
And then she's pacing back and forth, and kind of crying. And she sits down on the bed, at the foot of the bed.
Ira Glass
Did she seem crazy, or did she seem upset?
Elna Baker
I mean, it's interesting. I was-- I think I-- I was too young and unfamiliar to identify what a crazy person seems like.
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
But what I could identify in that moment was that this person was unpredictable.
Ira Glass
So you guys were like, oh, I've got to be really careful how I do this.
Elna Baker
I remember feeling that pressure, and in that moment, very, very, very aware of my brothers and sisters, because they were so little. And--
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
--that something bad could happen to them. And that the way that it wasn't going to happen to them was me. There were no adults there. I think it was the first situation I was ever in where there was-- you couldn't defer to someone else to keep you safe or tell you what to do. And what do I do?
And it had that quality of like-- like, time slows down. And you're kind of-- you're there, but you're also watching. And so then, I did the math in my head. And I was like, OK, I have a couple options. They are cry for help, scream. But I don't think anyone will hear.
Ira Glass
Mhm.
Elna Baker
I remember looking at how far away the phone was from me.
Ira Glass
Mhm.
Elna Baker
And I realized I can reach and grab the phone, and I could call for help. Or even like, if I could knock on the door where my sister was--
Ira Glass
Sister in the connecting room next door.
Elna Baker
I could at least-- they would know something was happening in here. And they could get to us in time.
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
But all of that felt like an escalation, like I would provoke her. And so what can I do to not provoke her and kind of play up the fact that we're children? And what I felt I needed to do was I needed to calm her down and become her friend. And if I could become her friend, she would leave, and she wouldn't hurt us.
Ira Glass
Like, get her to see you as a person?
Elna Baker
Just make her think I was on her side. Because then-- it didn't feel like she didn't see us as people. It just felt like-- it felt dangerous, and I didn't understand why. And I felt like the key to being safe was slowing everything down.
And I remember her saying, I'm really sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm here. I'm sorry I'm doing this. I'm sorry.
Ira Glass
Mhm.
Elna Baker
And I don't remember this, but my brother remembers that what she said was, I'm sorry, girls. I'm sorry, girls. And that his whole memory of this night was just being like, I'm a boy. [LAUGHS] He was so mad.
And so I ask her-- I said, are you OK? Is everything OK? And that's-- she kept, you know, going on about how her night was so hard.
And I was like, I'm so sorry. That sounds really, really difficult.
Ira Glass
And this is you trying to befriend her.
Elna Baker
Yeah, this is me trying to befriend her. But it's weird, I feel like-- I was hyper alert to like, if I can understand what's going on with her, I can help solve it. But I couldn't understand, because it didn't make any sense.
Ira Glass
Did you feel sorry for her?
Elna Baker
I felt concerned for her.
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
And-- and then she took out her purse. And she reached into her purse, and then she gripped onto something. And I remember thinking like, oh no, like, what-- the way-- like, if that--
Ira Glass
Oh, like, it's like a gun or something.
Elna Baker
Right, gun, or a knife or something. I remember my heart just dropping. And then she pulled out a hairbrush. And then she just started brushing her hair, like, at the foot of my bed.
Ira Glass
Wow.
Elna Baker
And-- and then at that point, I was like, this is really weird. Like, this is like--
Ira Glass
Right.
Elna Baker
And I don't think she's going to leave. And then she sat on the vanity in front of the mirror, at the desk. And she took her earrings off. And--
Ira Glass
Oh, wow.
Elna Baker
And she started like-- she took her shoes off. She took her coat off. She was just like--
Ira Glass
Oh, wow.
Elna Baker
--making herself comfortable to like, be here now.
Ira Glass
Right.
Elna Baker
And so I let her do all that, and was sort of listening to her go on about what was wrong. And then eventually, after I felt like enough time had passed, I said, we have to wake up early to go to school tomorrow. And we're really tired, so I think we should probably go back to bed now.
And she was like, I know, I know. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm here. I'm here. I'm sorry I'm here. And I said, no, it's totally fine that you're here-- almost like, you know, thank you for being here. But do you mind leaving now?
And so I very slowly stood up and walked over to the door. And every moment was like making sure I was safe. And then I open the door.
And she said, OK, OK. And she put her shoes on, and then she started to leave. And just as she was about to leave, I said, oh, you forgot your earrings. And then she was like-- started crying all over again, like it was this huge thing, walked over to get the earrings, and then sat back down on the bed.
And I remember thinking like, goddamn, why did I bring up the earrings? We were so close to being safe. So then the whole thing-- basically, the whole thing started all over again, where I had to like, listen to her cry, calm her down. And then finally, I'm like, you know, we have to wake up early to go to school. Do you mind leaving?
And I walked her to the door. And she walked out of the door. And then as soon as she was out of the door, I just pushed the door as hard as I could to close it. And when I pushed it, like basically slammed it shut, she screamed at the top of her lungs.
Ira Glass
And is there a bolt or something on the door?
Elna Baker
I think I did bolt it after I slammed it shut.
Ira Glass
Uh-huh.
Elna Baker
And then I heard her screaming in the hallway. And then she ran down the hallway, screaming. And then she ran back towards the door, screaming. And--
Ira Glass
That must have been terrifying.
Elna Baker
It was so scary. And then-- then it got-- was quiet. And then I heard this loud-- she's like banging on the door, like as hard as she can, right?
And then I hear a voice, and it's my dad. And my dad's like, open the door. Open the door. And I realize it's not her banging on the door.
So I open the door. And my dad's standing there, and he's like, did you hear someone screaming in the hallway? So then I tell him this whole story.
I'm like, there was this woman. She was in our room. I tell him all the details. And he is furious. He was so mad.
And then he told us to stay there, shut the door, don't open the door. And then he went downstairs and talked to the hotel about it.
Ira Glass
Yeah, what did he learn?
Elna Baker
They tell him that she had been outside. She was crying. They asked if she was a guest there. She said yes, her name was Elena Baker. And so they looked up the name.
Ira Glass
Elena Baker?
Elna Baker
Elena Baker, yeah.
Ira Glass
And your name is Elna Baker.
Elna Baker
Yes.
Ira Glass
OK.
Elna Baker
But I don't believe this part of the story. I think someone at the hotel just said this to him to cover.
Ira Glass
And then they gave her a key?
Elna Baker
And then they gave her a key.
Ira Glass
Uh-huh.
Elna Baker
Yeah. And so the hotel offered him, you know, the whole stay for free, everything for free. And he's like, I don't care about your money. I want you guys to do a formal investigation as to how this happened.
Ira Glass
Wow, that's such a white-man-takes-charge move.
Elna Baker
My dad's not white.
Ira Glass
Oh, point taken. [LAUGHS]
Elna Baker
He's a Hispanic man.
Ira Glass
I was just thinking, you just never hear like, somebody be like, I demand a formal investigation, you know what I mean? It's like he's a member of Congress or something, you know?
Elna Baker
Yeah, yeah.
Ira Glass
All right, anyway--
Elna Baker
But that's what-- I mean, that's totally how my dad would-- like, that's my dad.
Ira Glass
Point taken. OK.
Elna Baker
And so they do a formal investigation, which they then send to my dad. And--
Ira Glass
Long after you've like, gone from the hotel.
Elna Baker
Exactly. And in it, there's a picture of the woman. And then there's her history.
She had been in a psychiatric hospital and escaped that night, come to the hotel. And she had a long history of breaking into people's homes. And he's not certain about this part, so I don't--
Ira Glass
He doesn't remember it?
Elna Baker
He doesn't remember, but he says that he remembers there being-- she had attacked people when she'd broken into their homes.
Ira Glass
That's what he remembers?
Elna Baker
That's what he remembers.
Ira Glass
Yeah.
Elna Baker
Yeah.
Ira Glass
That part of the story-- the investigation, who the woman was-- Elna only found that out a couple of years ago when she asked her dad about it. At the time, back when she was 14, her parents kept all that from her and her brother and sisters. They didn't want them to dwell on it or make them afraid of the world. They didn't want that evening to become a bigger deal than it already was. And Elna says today, that worked.
Elna Baker
And it's funny, I've-- even as I've told this story over the years, people are like, oh, that's so traumatic, or that's crazy. And I don't think of it like that.
Ira Glass
How so?
Elna Baker
It just-- it just was sort of like a-- because nothing bad happened, it has no category for me, if that makes sense. It's been easier-- it was easier to just think like, oh, this one-- this weird thing happened one night when we were in a hotel.
Ira Glass
In retrospect, would you have preferred if they had told you back when you were 14?
Elna Baker
No, I think it's good that I got to live in a world that I think is safe.
Ira Glass
On the other hand, she says, if they had made clear how much danger she was in, the family's memory of it and her memory of it wouldn't be of this weird event with no category, this random thing that happened one night. Instead, it would fit squarely into the category called victory-- solid win for 14-year-old girl in a big, religious family, when she got that stranger out of their hotel room without anybody getting hurt. And Elna says she would have liked that win.
When you're trapped inside a room with an unpredictable person, really, all you've got is your wits, and your ability to read the situation, and your judgment at guessing what will work. Nice to show everybody that even a kid can make the right call sometimes, if they pay attention closely enough.
David Kestenbaum
Elna Baker, one of the producers of our show, talking to Ira Glass.
Act Three: You Can’t Go Your Own Way
David Kestenbaum
Act three-- You Can't Go Your Own Way. In her memoir, In the Dream House, Carmen Maria Machado wrote this chapter that's set up like a choose your own adventure story, which I just thought was so smart when I read it. In it, she imagines different choices she could have made with a partner that she's in a bad relationship with-- an abusive relationship.
And one of the things it captures is just the mental energy that somebody in that situation can end up putting into trying to figure out what they should do or not do to avoid setting off their partner. A heads up that this excerpt includes a scene with sexual content. It's read for us by actor Zoe Winters.
Zoe Winters
Page one. You wake up, and the air is milky and bright. The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes. You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
When you turn over, she is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach. You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
You were moving all night, she says. Your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake.
If you apologize profusely, go to page two. If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three. If you tell her to calm down, go to page five.
I choose page two. Page two-- I'm so sorry, you tell her. I really didn't mean to. I just move my arms around a lot in my sleep.
You try to be light about it. Did you know my dad does the same thing? The sleeping damsel swoon. So weird. I must have--
Are you really sorry? She says. I don't think you are. I am, you say.
You want the first impression of the morning to return to you-- its freshness, its light. I really am. Prove it. How? Stop doing it.
I told you, I can't. Fuck you, she says, and gets out of bed. You follow her all the way to the kitchen. Go to page seven.
Page seven-- breakfast. You scramble some eggs, make some toast. She eats mechanically and leaves the plate on the table. Clean that up, she says, as she goes to the bedroom to get dressed.
If you stare mutely at the dirty plate, and all you can think about is Clara Barton, the feminist icon of your youth, who had to teach herself how to be a nurse, and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn, and you remember being so angry, and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper, and your mom said yes, and your dad said no, and you, for the first time, had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was, go to page 10. If you do as you are told, go to page eight. If you tell her to do it herself, go to page five.
Page five-- are you kidding? You'd never do this. Don't try to convince any of these people that you'd stand up for yourself for one second. Get out of here. Go to the next chapter. You're out.
Wait, no, let's try that again. I go to page eight. Page eight-- as you're washing the dishes, you think to yourself, maybe I should put a tack on my forehead. Maybe I should be a better person. Go to page one.
Page one-- you wake up, and the air is milky and bright. The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes. You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
When you turn over, she is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach. You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
You were moving all night, she says. Your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake.
If you apologize profusely, go to page two. If you tell her to calm down, go to page five. If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three.
I go to page three. Page three-- baby, if this ever happens in the future, you can always wake me up, and I'll go to the couch, I promise. I really don't mean to do it. I don't have any memory of it. I can't control how I move in my sleep.
You are such a fucking cunt, she says. You never take responsibility for anything. All you have to do is wake me up, you say, a kind of incoherent desperation zipping through your skull. That's it. Wake me up and tell me to move or sleep on the couch, and I will do it. I swear to you.
Fuck you, she says, and gets out of bed. You follow her to the kitchen. Go to page seven.
Page seven-- breakfast. You scramble some eggs, make some toast. She eats mechanically and leaves the plate on the table. Clean that up, she says, as she goes to the bedroom to get dressed.
If you do as you are told, go to page eight. If you tell her to do it herself, go to page five. If you stare mutely at the dirty plate, and all you can think about is Clara Barton, the feminist icon of your youth, who had to teach herself how to be a nurse, and endured abuse from men telling her what to do at every turn, and you remember being so angry, and running to your parents and asking them if women still got told what was right or proper, and your mom said yes, and your dad said no, and you, for the first time, had an inkling of how complicated and terrible the world was, go to page 10.
Page 10-- that night, she [MUTED] you as you lie there mutely, praying for it to be over, praying she won't notice you're gone. You have voided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit, reflexive as a sigh. It reminds you of your first boyfriend, who [MUTED] you while watching porn, how he rutted and rutted, and then every so often, lifted the remote to rewind something you couldn't see.
Once, you turned your head over the lip of the bed and saw a tangle of upside-down limbs, and your brain couldn't make sense of them. You never looked again. You would just lie there silently, watching his face move over you. It was like being unfolded beneath the yawn of the planetarium as a kid-- the sped-up rotation of the Earth, the movement of the stars, the constellations melting into and out of being.
You shudder and moan with precision. She turns off the lights. You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you, or you leave it.
To sleep, go to page 14. To dream about the present, go to page 13. To dream about the future, go to page 12.
To dream about the past, go to page 11. I want to dream about the past. I choose page 11.
Page 11-- the first time it happened. The first time she yelled at you so much you were crying within 30 seconds from waking-- a record. She said, the first 10 minutes of the day, I'm not responsible for anything I say. This struck you as poetic. You even wrote it down, sure you would find a place for it in a book, maybe. Go to page 14.
Page 9-- you shouldn't be on this page. There's no way to get here from the choices given to you. Do you think that, by flipping through this chapter linearly, you'd find some kind of relief? Don't you get it? All of this shit already happened. And you can't make it not happen, no matter what you do.
Do you want a picture of a fawn? Will that help? OK, here's a fawn. She is small, and dappled, and loose-legged.
She hears a sound, freezes, and then bolts. She knows what to do. She knows there's somewhere safer she can be. Go to page 10.
I don't want to go to page 10. Page 6-- you shouldn't be on this page. There's no way to get here from the choices given to you. You flipped here because you got sick of the cycle.
You wanted to get out. You're smarter than me. Go to page 10.
Fine. I go to page 10. Page 10-- that night, she fucks you as you lie there mutely, praying for it to be over, praying she won't notice you're gone. You have voided your body so many times by now that it is force of habit, reflexive as a sigh.
It reminds you of your first-- the sped-up rotation of the Earth, the movement of the stars, the constellations melting into and out of being. You shudder and moan with precision. She turns off the lights. You watch the darkness until the darkness leaves you, or you leave it.
To sleep, go to page 14. To dream about the past, go to page 11. To dream about the present, go to page 13.
Page 13-- you shouldn't be here, but it's OK. It's a dream. She can't find you here. In a minute, you're going to wake up, and everything is going to seem like it's the same, but it's not.
There's a way out. Are you listening to me? You can't forget when you wake up. You can't go to page 14.
I want to dream about the future. I go to page 12. Page 12-- it's going to be all right.
One day, your wife will gently adjust your arm if it touches her face at night, soothingly straightening it while kissing you. Sometimes, you will wake up just enough to notice. Other times, she'll only tell you in the morning. It's the kind of morning you could get used to. Go to page 14.
Page 14-- you wake up, and the air is milky and bright. The room glows with a kind of effervescent contentment, despite the boxes, and clothes, and dishes. You think to yourself, this is the kind of morning you could get used to.
When you turn over, she is staring at you. The luminous innocence of the light curdles in your stomach. You don't remember ever going from awake to afraid so quickly.
You were moving all night, she says. Your arms and elbows touched me. You kept me awake.
If you apologize profusely, go to page two. If you tell her to wake you up next time your elbows touch her in your sleep, go to page three. If you toss back the blankets from your body and hit the floor with both feet, and tear through the house like it's Pamplona, and when you get to the driveway, your car keys are already in your hand, and you drive away with a theatrical squeal of the tires, never to return again, go to page 15.
Page 15-- that's not how it happened, but OK, we can pretend. I'll give it to you, just this once. Turn to page 16.
Page 16-- an end. In the pit of it, you fantasize about dying-- tripping on a sidewalk, and stumbling into the path of an oncoming car, a gas leak silently offing you in your sleep, a machete-wielding madman on public transit, falling down the stairs, but drunk, so you flop, limb over limb, like a marionette, and feel no pain-- anything to make it stop. You have forgotten that leaving is an option.
David Kestenbaum
Zoe Winters reading a chapter from Carmen Maria Machado's memoir, In the Dream House. Carmen has a comic series out now called The Low, Low Woods, from DC Comics. You can see Zoe Winters in season three of HBO'S Succession, which is out in October.
Act Four: Blue Kid on the Block
David Kestenbaum
Act four-- Blue Kid on the Block. This last story is about what happens after you get out-- in this particular case, when you get out of Rochester, New York. The kid in this story, who we're going to call Leo-- it's not his real name-- his family had moved to an entirely different state. And he was not happy about it.
At the time, Leo was just starting seventh grade. He was having a harder time finding his place in middle school than other middle school kids, because, you know, he was new to town, but also because Leo still loved Rochester. He loved his school there. He loved his friends. Suddenly, everything about his life was different, and according to Leo, much worse.
The signature on his Gmail account now read, Rochester is much better, in big, red letters. Sarah Koenig knows Leo and his parents. She visited them at home to see how Leo is doing.
Sarah Koenig
This is how much Leo does not want to be here-- when I got to his house, he was on the sofa with a laptop, investigating Greyhound bus schedules. His mother was going to drive him and his sister back to Rochester for the Columbus Day weekend, but not until Saturday morning. And Leo wanted to get there Friday for more time with his friends.
A multi-stage negotiation followed with his dad. For one thing, a bus ticket costs money.
Leo
That's not the-- that's not a problem. [? I have that money-- ?]
Leo's Dad
Not for you. No, that wasn't a problem for you.
Leo
No, but--
Leo's Dad
There isn't one, right?
Leo
There isn't one-- not at 6:15 in the morning. And you won't let me miss school on Friday.
Leo's Dad
The bus takes eight hours. Even if you left at noon, you'd be at-- are gonna do the math? That's excellent.
Sarah Koenig
Never mind that the bus takes twice as long as driving, and never mind that Leo would be alone, and have to change buses, and that his parents had no intention of letting him go through with this plan. But it's the kind of negotiation you indulge when your kid is miserable. And Leo is miserable. He told me right away he was, and that he had been from the moment he got here in August.
Sarah Koenig
Is this the first time you've-- in your life where you felt like you've been sad about something for this long?
Leo
I think so, except for maybe when my other cat died-- my old cat.
Sarah Koenig
And does this feel worse than that?
Leo
Yes.
Sarah Koenig
Oh, really?
Leo
Mhm. I've never had long periods of sad until now. I don't know. I don't know anyone here, really. And I think it's just everything in general that's overwhelming.
Sarah Koenig
Back in Rochester, Leo had known all his best friends since kindergarten or before. They played together at school, after school, on weekends. Everybody knew everybody. Everything was comfortable.
And as a sixth grader in his old school, he and his friends were at the top of the heap. They wore green sashes in the morning, and got to be door monitors for the younger kids coming into the building. So imagine now, Leo takes a school bus for the first time to his new school, a sprawling one-story building full of sixth, seventh, and eighth graders.
Leo's small for his age, only a hair taller than his sister, who's only nine years old. On day one, he knows exactly no one.
Leo
It was much louder than my old school, much louder. People talking, people closing and opening lockers. People walking-- it was just noise. Just older kids, more kids, because my old school was tiny.
Sarah Koenig
Leo is between. He's old enough to decipher Greyhound bus schedules, but not old enough to actually travel on one by himself, and old enough to know that, if he's going to survive in middle school, he has to make friends, but that making those friends stands to be significantly more complicated than it was back in Rochester. Leo's sister, Auden, is in fourth grade. He says she's not having as hard a time of it.
Leo
She hasn't been alive as long. She hasn't made as deep connections. And she's already met some-- a friend in her school. I think it's easier to make friends in elementary school than in middle school.
Sarah Koenig
Oh, really? Why?
Leo
Because people care less about who you are.
Sarah Koenig
What do you mean by that?
Leo
The older you get, the more you judge people on their looks, their background, their-- how they act, like, what cool is for kids. Because in kindergarten, you could just walk up to someone and say, do you want to be my friend? And they would-- then, that would be it. But it's harder.
I just think people are more wary before they open up. They like-- I don't know, in first grade, if I met someone, I wouldn't really care who they were. I would just care if they were nice or not.
Sarah Koenig
The day I interviewed him, Leo had had a couple of breakthroughs. He emailed his parents during the school day to tell them the first piece of good news they'd had from him. Until that day, the emails had mostly been three desperate words-- I feel awful. Without even a period at the end to make the feeling finite, it was an endless awful.
But on this Thursday, he wrote to tell them the mashed potatoes they serve in the cafeteria were great, followed by four exclamation points. Second-- and this was the big news-- he asked another kid if he wanted to come over. Leo told me he thought about it first for a few days, then finally emailed the boy, whose name is Devin, another seventh grader.
But now, Leo didn't want to call Devin's house to finalize a plan. He dreaded the awkwardness of the phone. So his dad called Devin's parents, introduced himself as Leo's father.
Leo's Dad
--dad. He goes to school with your son, Evan. And we were-- Devin-- I'm so sorry, Devin. I'm getting the evil look from my son. I apologize. But we're hoping Devin can come over on Sunday. Thanks. I panicked.
Leo
Dad, you fool! [LAUGHS]
Sarah Koenig
How'd that go?
Leo
Not well.
[LAUGHTER]
Leo's Dad
This is my son, Freddy.
[LAUGHTER]
Sarah Koenig
I thought Leo might be upset about it, maybe get sulky. But here he was, cracking up, joking with his dad. It was such a relief to hear him laugh after he'd been so solemn in our interview.
And I thought, this is all going to be OK. He's going to snap out of it. He's almost there. An afternoon with Devin is going to do the trick. Then, Sunday came.
Devin
OK, now I have three health again.
Leo
I can tell your-- you could tell your wolf to attack.
Devin
OK, I'm going to tell my wolf to attack, then.
Sarah Koenig
Leo taught Devin how to play Dungeons and Dragons.
Leo
And the wolf lands on its feet.
Devin
Yay! Go, wolfie! Go, wolfie!
Leo
Mm-hmm.
Devin
Go, wolfie! Oh, I am so weird.
Sarah Koenig
On the drive home, Leo and Devin talk nonstop-- a gentle, rat-a-tat one-upmanship emanating from deep inside a computer game.
Leo
I am a-- I am what else, warlock?
Devin
Warlocks are fun. Can you summon your imp yet?
Leo
Yeah, you start with imp.
Devin
Oh, right. I like-- I had a goblin shaman.
Leo
I have a night elf druid. And I can turn into a cat at level eight, which is nice.
Devin
And at level 12, you get a bear.
Leo
Yeah.
Devin
And then at level--
Sarah Koenig
By the time they drop Devin off, they were giggling.
Leo
--yeah, you start with--
Devin
That's funny.
Leo
Our cat responds to whatever you call him. [? And he ?] [? said, ?] his name is Pippen, but we can call him Football, and he'll respond.
[LAUGHTER]
Devin
You call him Football?
Leo
Here, Football! Here, Football!
Leo's Dad
Thanks for coming over.
Leo
Thanks.
Devin
Thank you for inviting me.
Leo
See you tomorrow.
Devin
See you.
Sarah Koenig
So a perfect day, right? Leo's parents were relieved, hopeful. But no.
Sarah Koenig
It's Wednesday. You had your friend over on Sunday. How'd it go?
Leo
It went OK. Yeah, it went OK.
Sarah Koenig
Has it changed anything about being here?
Leo
A little bit. I don't think very much. But a little bit, yeah.
Sarah Koenig
What's changed? What's the little bit?
Leo
That I know someone at school. It helps. Not all that much, but sort of, yeah.
Sarah Koenig
And this is when I realized I'd underestimated the depth of Leo's gloom-- that he greets every morning of every school day with dread, and not because he's being bullied, or anyone's being mean to him.
Leo
I feel sick, because I know that I have the whole day ahead of me, and then I have the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day ahead of me.
Sarah Koenig
Does it pass once you get to school?
Leo
No, not really. It usually increases to a climax around lunchtime. And then I-- actually, I've been throwing up recently. And then it just stays at that level of sickness until I get home.
Sarah Koenig
You're kidding me. You're throwing up at school?
Leo
Yeah.
Sarah Koenig
Aw, that's awful. In the bathroom, or where?
Leo
Yeah, in the bathroom. Usually at lunch, I feel really bad. And then I go to the bathroom, and I throw up.
Sarah Koenig
Has that happened this week?
Leo
Today, it did.
Sarah Koenig
Do you tell your parents like, I don't want to go, I don't want to go? Or do you just-- you know you have to, so you don't say anything?
Leo
No, I throw a screaming fit.
Sarah Koenig
Every morning?
Leo
Yeah, pretty much. I didn't today.
Sarah Koenig
What was different about this morning? How come you didn't today?
Leo
I felt resigned. I mean, I knew that I would have to go anyway, so I gave up.
Sarah Koenig
Here's the curse of being almost 13-- old enough to understand his life will supposedly get better with time, but not old enough to really believe he's going to feel any differently than he does right this minute. Since making friends with Devin, Leo is one step toward being the kid he wants to be-- someone with pals, someone who's comfortable again. But he says right now, he's just worried he's going to be throwing up all year.
David Kestenbaum
Sarah Koenig-- she's the host of Serial. In the years since this story first ran, Leo has made many friends. They've become immersed in the world of theater, and has finally forgiven their parents for the move. Leo did return to New York, though. They graduated from NYU this past spring.
[MUSIC - "WE GOTTA GET OUT OF THIS PLACE" BY THE ANIMALS]
(SINGING) We gotta get out of this place if it's the last thing we ever do. We gotta get out of this place. 'Cause girl, there's a better life for me and you.
Credits
David Kestenbaum
Today's program was produced by Diane Wu and Lina Misitzis. The people who put the show together today include Bim Adewunmi, Elna Baker, Ben Calhoun, Dana Chivvis, Sean Cole, Aviva DeKornfeld, Seth Lind, Stowe Nelson, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Nancy Updike, and Chloee Weiner. Our managing editor-- Sarah Abdurrahman. Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry. Special thanks today to Harrison Nesbit, Will Yurman, Hilary Appleman, and Maximo Berryman-Chace.
Our website-- thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 700 episodes for absolutely free. Again, thisamericanlife.org. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange.
Thanks to our boss, Ira Glass. You know, he says he's on vacation, but he keeps coming into the studio, making these tiny little edits to our stories.
Elna Baker
I'm really sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm here. I'm sorry I'm doing this. I'm sorry.
David Kestenbaum
We'll be back next week with more stories of This American Life.
(SINGING) Girl, there's a better life for me and you. Somewhere, baby. Somehow, I know it, baby. We got to get out of this place if it's the last thing we ever do.