819: Special Bonus Podcast — Yousef’s Week
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Act One: Act One
Yousef Hammash
Hello.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi. This is Yousef Hammash?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, it is, loud and clear.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Good. [LAUGHS] Is this still a OK time for you to talk?
Yousef Hammash
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, but it's a bit crazy outside, a lot of crowds. There's a lot of traffic, especially from the children. Let me find a quiet place. Close the door. Yes.
Ira Glass
Earlier this month, one of our producers, Chana Joffe-Walt, made this call to Yousef Hammash in Gaza. He works for a humanitarian organization, the Norwegian Refugee Council, the NRC. Yousef's in his early 30s, has got two kids, big extended family. Chana talked to him a few times over the course of one week, really knowing very little about him or his situation at the beginning.
And as you'll hear, more and more unfolds and gets revealed. And it all feels so immediate and particular to these few weeks right now, in the war in Gaza, that we wanted to bring it to you now. Like, it feels like it's about right now. We have other stories, I should say, about this war in the works, including from inside Israel, so please stay tuned for those.
But for today, with Yousef, Chana would talk to him at night, his time. His family was living in the NRC office, in Rafah. So he was in the unusual situation in Gaza where he often did have internet access with solar panels providing power. The first day Chana talked to him, he had just relocated with his wife and kids to Rafah, where the office was. It's along the border with Egypt. His four sisters and their families were about eight miles away in a town called Khan Yunis. So here are those conversations.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So talk to me about what did you do today.
Yousef Hammash
Today, I had to find a place for my extended family, which hamdullah, I found it today. I found a place, and I built a tent-- two tents, actually-- because I couldn't find a house to rent or anything. So tomorrow, I will move the rest of my family here to Rafah from Khan Yunis to these two tents. And today, it takes me a while, building these tents. Then I have to go to the market buying whatever I can find.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did you find?
Yousef Hammash
Today, I found-- ah, that's a good question. Trying to remember. So some vegetables. Actually, it was tomato and pepper. And I couldn't find potato, because there is no potato in all over Gaza, and milk for the children. I'm responsible for my children, my sisters, my mother because I'm the only son here in Gaza. I'm the only man for a big family. So I have a quite big responsibility towards them, so.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Have you had decisions that you had to make for everybody that you couldn't figure out what the right choice was?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Yeah, that decision that I'm taking today. I decided to build a tent while they are in an apartment in Khan Yunis, and everything is available for them. I'm taking them in this harsh weather in an empty land under a tent.
I don't know if it's going to be right or wrong. I had to make this decision several times, unfortunately. Now, it became our routine is like now I have to move again, so. And it's not easy decision. And I was trying to evaluate the situation on a daily basis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is there anybody in the family that is hesitant? Do you have to--
Yousef Hammash
Yes, we have had-- I had. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, eh, they are part of the family. Yeah, even a few minutes ago, I was having this debate with my sister that was like, OK, I'm pregnant, because she's pregnant. And she don't want to do the delivery in a tent. And she said, OK, they are still far, like 1 kilometer away, the tanks.
And she said that we cannot suffer more. At least we have here bathroom. The main debate was a bathroom, about having your privacy to use a bathroom. Because when you are fleeing in a tent, there is no bathrooms or that privacy. Well, I'm trying-- tomorrow, I'll find a way to build a bathroom for them.
Chana Joffe-Walt
This week that I'm talking to Yousef, it isn't the first time he's moved and convinced his sisters to move, too. They started the war in Jabalia, in the northern part of Gaza on October 7, when Hamas attacked southern Israel and killed around 1,200 people, the majority civilians in their homes, at work, enjoying a music festival, took about 240 people hostage. Yousef immediately moved his family from Jabalia to his parents' house in a nearby city, Beit Lahiya. They moved the very next day, October 8. It seemed safer there.
On October 9, Israeli airstrikes hit Jabalia, and then again on October 12, 19, 22, and 31, November 1, 2, 4, and on. Jabalia now has massive craters several yards deep. Yousef, his family, and his sisters had all fled to various relatives and friends in the north, until Israel told people in the north to move south. They had cousins in Khan Yunis, in the south of Gaza. So he and his family drove there and convinced his sisters to come, too. He says on the way, the cars in front of them and behind them were bombed.
In Khan Yunis, they stayed with relatives, Yousef and his wife and his mom and his kids and his sisters and their families. Everyone stayed with cousins and relatives in different apartments across the city, until Yousef read a leaflet that fell from the sky. It said, you must evacuate immediately and go to shelters in the city of Rafah. The city of Khan Yunis is a dangerous combat zone. Forewarned is forearmed. It was signed the Israeli Defense Forces. That's when he fled to Rafah with his wife and his kids.
By that point, over 15,000 people in Gaza had been killed, the majority civilians. The place Yousef works, the NRC, had rented an office in Rafah, in the area the Israelis were now saying was a safe zone. Yousef moved his immediate family into the office, where he was when I called him, where he is now, in Rafah. But his sisters and their families aren't so sure they want to follow this time. So Yousef, from the moment he got to Rafah, has been pushing his sisters in Khan Yunis to come. He's been at that for almost a week.
Yousef Hammash
To be honest, each one of them have its own personality, and I have to persuade her the way I know, each one of them. One of them, she's worried about her father-in-law and mother-in-law. And I was like, OK, they are not safe, and they are on the street. I'll build them a tent. But I want to make sure that you are with me here. I'll bring them also. The other one, I had to do the same option with her. OK, I'll bring your father-in-law and their entire family. I'll take care of them, but I want you to come here.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What about the woman who's pregnant?
Yousef Hammash
I keep doing-- yeah, the woman pregnant, she's the youngest, and she's the most stubborn one. Yeah, she's the youngest. When we came to the south, there was no military operation on the ground. She refused, and her father-in-law and mother-in-law refused. I had a fight with them. And I told them, listen, I want my sister with me. And we had a bit of argue because they didn't expect what's coming.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah, hadn't thought about how, each time, you have to mentally convince yourself that the place that you're in, which is feeling OK at that moment, might not feel OK very soon.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, and who would ever imagine that the Israeli tanks will be in the center of Jabalia camp? Or who would ever imagine that they would be in Shifa Hospital? Yeah, these things, we never imagined that it would be a real thing that we are seeing by our own eyes. We never thought about that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef was lobbying his sisters to move as hard as he could, but honestly, he himself wasn't always totally sure about bringing them to Rafah. The evacuation order, it wasn't for all of Khan Yunis. There was no available housing in Rafah, not that he could find. In Khan Yunis, they had mattresses, a bathroom. And his sisters had moved cities twice already with kids, in-laws. So maybe they were fine.
But then, Yousef says, he heard the Israeli military was now in a part of Khan Yunis he'd been staying in with his family, just a few days before. So maybe they weren't fine. Yousef kept searching for new information. He'd ask everyone he met, look everywhere online, except a few places he avoided.
Yousef Hammash
I don't open my Facebook, for example, or Instagram because all my friends from Gaza are there because I don't want to know who's dead. I don't want to know. And I don't have the time to respect these people who I lose.
By coincidence, a few days ago, I found out that my uncle is dead. I didn't know about that before. And a friend of mine told me that. Oh, hey, you know, and, yeah. We were just having a chat, and I mentioned him. And he didn't know that he's my uncle. And I was talking that he's my uncle. And he's like, I'm sorry for your loss. I was like, what?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Aw.
Yousef Hammash
I didn't know. And it was like two weeks ago. He's dead. He's killed two weeks ago in Jabalia while I didn't know.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did that come up in that conversation?
Yousef Hammash
We were mentioning where his parents living in Jabalia. And I was like, OK, my relatives living there. They are from Ajouri family. And he was like, yeah, I know them. I was like, yeah, he's my uncle. He's like, yeah, sorry for your loss. I was like, no, no, no, he's alive. No, he was killed in an airstrike. I know, I know. And I feel a bit stupid. And it was a really weird feeling that I didn't know that my uncle is dead since two weeks. He was killed.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you--
Yousef Hammash
The other thing-- OK, just to continue on this story.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Please.
Yousef Hammash
Yesterday, my brother who lives in Sweden, my cousin who is the son of my uncle I mentioned, he was asking my brother to check if I have information about his father. And I don't want to be that-- also to deliver the news for him that his father was killed.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Have you told him?
Yousef Hammash
No, I told him there is no connection between the south and the north, and it's impossible to reach anyone there, which is true, because there is no phone call. There is nothing that-- you cannot reach anyone in the north. And I was like, I will try to check what's the situation, but I couldn't-- I didn't want to be the one who's giving the news.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, Yousef, so you just couldn't bring yourself to tell him what you had heard.
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Even my mother, who's with me now, doesn't know.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is it her brother?
Yousef Hammash
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And you're not going to tell her?
Yousef Hammash
Definitely not. And I'm saying that here because I'm sure that-- they don't understand English, first of all, and second thing, they won't listen. Sorry for that, but they're in Gaza. They won't listen to this podcast to know from this podcast that-- yeah.
And another time that my brother-in-law, his sister was killed with her seven children. Also, they called me because they had his family reached out to me because they cannot reach him and asked me to tell him that his sister was killed with her entire family. And that was painful. It wasn't easy. I don't want to be in that position again.
I always don't-- ya'ani, it's one of the first times that I really speak about these things, and it seems really weird for me that I always in front of everyone around me, I'm the man who's managing everything and supporting anyone in need. And if you need anything, the best one to call is Yousef, you know. Now I'm helpless, useless. And I cannot do anything. I cannot even manage my own need.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So if your uncle comes up, your mom mentions him or your wife says, oh, I wonder how he's doing, you will not say anything.
Yousef Hammash
It happens, and I didn't say anything. Yes, it happened yesterday, and I was like, no, I am not going to say anything. My brain was like circling around. And I was like, OK, you have to tell her. She deserved to know that her brother is dead. And I was like, no. It's her right to know, and she will blame me a lot when she knows that I was knowing without telling her. I have to shut down my brain. It's like, no, you turn off. It's not your role now.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Not your what?
Yousef Hammash
It's not your role.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Not your role.
Yousef Hammash
You don't need to be functioning now.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Mm-hmm, yeah. Focus on building tents.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, I have to be honest. I have plenty of to-do list. On my list is many things. My priority now, it's the time to secure my family and manage their needs more than anything else. For me, looking for their safety, it's not about them only. It's more about me. I cannot imagine, for a moment, losing one of them, one of my sisters. It has to be me before them.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I see.
Yousef Hammash
'Cause I don't have the strength even to think about losing one of them. That's why I'm doing it. Not because of you, it's because of me. I don't have that. I am weak to have the strength to handle losing any one of them. I don't have that strength.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you think they do it for you?
Yousef Hammash
They came to Khan Yunis with me for me. No one agreed. It was really hard. And I had to fight with my mother. But they came because I want them. I want them to be with me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So they do it for you.
Yousef Hammash
At that time, yes. It was for me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And this time?
Yousef Hammash
This time, I think I'll prepare everything. I will prepare the tents. I'll find you a place. Then I'll move you once, when everything's ready to have you. And what pushed me to finish everything today is that Benjamin Netanyahu, he was threatening Hezbollah. He was saying, Hezbollah, you should stop what you are doing because if you start a war, we will turn Beirut into Gaza and Khan Yunis. So I was like, OK, now it's Khan Yunis. I need to evacuate them from there. They are in the center of Khan Yunis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you send them that quote?
Yousef Hammash
Yep. Because a lot of people stay until the last moment, and when they evacuate, they will evacuate under bombing. And I don't want my sisters to experience that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What does the tent look like?
Yousef Hammash
So there is two types of tents. Now I became expert, by the way.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I was going to ask you how you know to build tents so quickly.
Yousef Hammash
So one, I get it through NRC, where I work, and it was with instruction. That was easy. The other one is like wooden sticks with plastic. The hardest part was finding a place, a suitable place to rent a small land, not randomly in the streets, you know? It's agricultural area. It's a bit sandy everywhere.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you rent a land? You didn't just--
Yousef Hammash
A lot of airstrikes, wow.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I'm sorry, what?
Yousef Hammash
No, there was a massive airstrike.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Just now?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah. Yes. Another airstrike. They're getting crazy somehow, all of this in Khan Yunis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The explosions are in Khan Yunis right now?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another one. What's going on? I'll call you in a minute, OK?
Chana Joffe-Walt
No problem. No problem.
Yousef Hammash
I just need to check, OK? Just one minute, I'll call you back.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Take your time. Bye.
Yousef Hammash
Because it seems really massive there. OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, bye. Hi.
Yousef Hammash
Hello.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, sorry.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is everybody OK?
Yousef Hammash
Just wanna make sure that they're still alive. Yeah, they're alive.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you literally write, "are you alive?"
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it was a funny message from my sister. "Are you alive?"
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wait, that's funny?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, because I had to send emojis laughing. That's how we are talking, always, even when I'm with them. It's like, OK, we have one more day to live. Let's enjoy it. Maybe two days, OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you wrote her, are you alive, smiley face?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, my god. Yeah, and she writes back yes, or she laughs?
Yousef Hammash
She laughs and said it's a bit calm. A bit calm. OK, I don't know what she means a bit calm, but ya'ani.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I'll let you go. I've taken so much of your time.
Yousef Hammash
Thank you so much.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And tomorrow, what's going to happen is your sisters are going to move?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, this is going to be the early thing for me to do in the morning because I don't want them to move under the bombing. So I want to evacuate them when it's a bit calm and manageable without risks. So I'll do it in the early morning, but maybe because of this rain-- ah-- I need to assess the situation tomorrow morning. I promised them that we will make decision together this time, tomorrow morning.
Chana Joffe-Walt
But you've already made the decision that you want them to go?
Yousef Hammash
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
[LAUGHS] All right. OK, I hope you have an easy night. And I will check in with you tomorrow.
Yousef Hammash
That's a good phrase, "easy night." [LAUGHS] OK. Inshallah. Thank you. Thank you.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, bye.
Yousef Hammash
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Yousef?
Yousef Hammash
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did your sisters move today?
Yousef Hammash
Unfortunately, not yet. They were refusing to leave without a bathroom, but today, there were a lot of tanks and airstrikes. No, I promised them that tomorrow it's going to be-- there will be a bathroom tomorrow. I'll make my best to make it happen.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I want to jump in and say a little bit about what Yousef doing his best looks like, an incomplete summary of that particular day. He spent the morning trying to track down trucks for the Norwegian Refugee Council, where he works. The trucks were full of aid, things like bedding, tents, buckets for water, that should have arrived at the border, but he couldn't check online if they were there because the system was down and the phones weren't working. So he went in person, wandered around, looking at plate numbers-- could not find the trucks.
Then he went to the market to find medicine for his wife, Manal, who's sick-- could not find medicine. In the midst of all this, he got a call from another relative who was fleeing and needed a place to stay in Rafah. Yes, yes, you can come, Yousef told him. One more tent.
Near his sisters' tents, Yousef saw a guy building a bathroom, hired that guy, but he's busy until tomorrow. The bathroom guy told Yousef he needed to find supplies. So Yousef spent hours searching for cement, stones, and a water tank. He found a water tank, but it was in a different part of Gaza, so Yousef paid more than the price of the water tank to get it transported.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I was picturing a hole in the ground that you were going to build near-- you were going to dig near the tents, but you're building an actual bathroom with water and walls.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, actually, that was a condition from my sisters.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So is that the first thing for you tomorrow?
Yousef Hammash
Definitely, yes. [LAUGHS] It will be happening for sure tomorrow because, ya'ani, a few, two hours ago or less, there was an airstrike near them, and it takes me like half an hour or more just trying to call, trying to call. I couldn't reach anyone. That freaked me out. I cannot handle this situation again.
And I managed to reach my sister, Aseel. And they are fine. There is a lot of gas and a lot of bombing, but we are fine. And this is when we agreed hallas tomorrow you are moving. And I will come to pick you tomorrow.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, you did?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So she definitely agreed?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah. I then-- [NON-ENGLISH] sorry. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Are we recording something? Because my son is just annoying me. [LAUGHS]
Chana Joffe-Walt
That's OK. I like hearing him. How old is he?
Yousef Hammash
2 year and 1/2.
Chana Joffe-Walt
2 and 1/2.
Yousef Hammash
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] I'm just asking him to close the door. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Last night, I had to stay awake until Ahmed, who cannot sleep without being kissed 1,000 time on his cheeks until he sleep. Sometimes when he feels that I'm tired of kissing him, he gives me his hand to kiss it.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So that you have it close to you?
Yousef Hammash
Exactly, yeah. He likes to give me some rest sometimes. OK, you can kiss my hand. I don't know how he get this habit, but I don't mind it. And for me, it's OK. [LAUGHS] I'm really grateful for the rain. It start raining. Then that reduced the sound of bombing. And also, you can use-- no, this is thunder strike. So we are lucky today. We can manipulate that, so ya'ani.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you'll tell them in the night if they hear a noise--
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it's raining. It's raining. It's raining. It's the thunder strike. It's raining. Ya'ani. I don't know. At the beginning, it was a bit easy to convince them that this is fireworks or thunder strike. But then even my daughter, Illya, which is five years old, now can understand that this is airstrike.
Even my son, Ahmed, who is two years and a half, and he can say like bombing, this is from airplane. And he keeps using this word, "gussuff," "gussuff," which means "strikes." And what the hell? That's another massive airstrike.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is it close to you?
Yousef Hammash
No. If it was close, you would hear it.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, OK.
Yousef Hammash
I failed to convince them that this is not a war. And I failed that they know that this is a war at that age. And they see how we are shouting, my sisters are crying. Or it's not enough anymore for my children, when they feel panic from bombing, to run towards us. They start scream without even running towards us because somehow they understood that we don't have that ability to protect them.
And that's something really awful when you understand that your children understand that you cannot protect them. When I start to feel useless in front of my children and when I found that I cannot protect my children, I deeply regret it because-- [SIGHS]
Chana Joffe-Walt
You regret what?
Yousef Hammash
What is the meaning as a father? I regret having children here. What is the meaning for me as a father if I cannot protect them?
Chana Joffe-Walt
You regret having children? Having children in Gaza?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Definitely, I regret. I made them. I made that decision. And I had children in Gaza while I know the consequences, but I wasn't imagining that we will go through this, because I am a man of responsibility. I'm responsible for these children to secure their life and future. If I know that they will live through this, I would never, ever even get married here.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You would never get married. Is that what you said?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. Is a part of that feeling like "I should have known not to do this," or--
Yousef Hammash
It's "I should never have did that decision."
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Yousef. Do you have a couple of minutes?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did today go?
Yousef Hammash
Oh, it was a really, really long day. Had to start really early and was a lot of things to do.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did they move?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They moved?
Yousef Hammash
So I brought them all. Yeah, yeah, they moved.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wow, you did it. Took you--
Yousef Hammash
It was really a lot. [LAUGHS] Last night, they were texting me about a lot of bombing. The house next to them was bombed. Another house behind them was bombed. And so they wanted to move. They wanted to go, hallas.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You said the house next to them was bombed last night?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Yeah, last night was a bit harsh when they started texting me that the bombing is around us. What?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. But there was an airstrike that hit a property right next to them?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, but it's a drone strike. So, OK, we have different types of missiles that the Israelis are using. So there is the F-16, which is warplanes and this American-made weapon that destroy entire neighborhoods. The drones have smaller bombs that destroy a house or half of the house. They were afraid that the bombing might be in the same house because it's four floors, and they are the first one. So that's why they didn't argue me and like, yes, let's move.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you think about going in the night?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, I told them, I'm coming.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You texted back, I'm coming?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, and they were freaking out that I will come. And my wife prevented me. My sisters were texting me, do not come. There is a lot of bombing in the street in front of the house. Do not come.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef waited till the sun came up and then drove to Khan Yunis. He says on his way there, he could hear gunfire and explosions all around him.
Yousef Hammash
The first thing I did in the morning is, I went there, pack up in the car my sisters and their children. And I came and then I sent another car, like a small van, small bus, so I can have the bags and everything and my brothers-in-law.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Was there a part of you that felt a little frustrated? Like, I told you guys you should have come earlier? I didn't want it to get to this?
Yousef Hammash
That's exactly what the first thing I said today when I met them.
Chana Joffe-Walt
[LAUGHS] That was how you greeted them?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did you say?
Yousef Hammash
The first thing was like, I told you. We don't want to-- 'cause there was a lot of bombing, a lot of tanks. I told you before, we don't need to run away under shelling and bombing. But now we did it. Hallas. Every time, it had to be the same situation.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So overnight, you're worried about their survival and you're panicked, and you want to drive to get them in the middle of the night, but in the morning, you greet them with, "I told you so. This is what I said was going to happen."
Yousef Hammash
Yeah. I was blaming them. [LAUGHS] So there is no discussion we are leaving.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you didn't hug them and cry and say, I'm so glad you survived. You said--
Yousef Hammash
No.
Chana Joffe-Walt
--get in the car.
Yousef Hammash
No, we have a different type of relation. It's not about hugging them. I was laughing. You should have died. I should be in the morgue now. [LAUGHS] This is how I am with my sisters.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And did they laugh? What did they say back?
Yousef Hammash
Hadir was like, ah, you know. Actually, they will start to give me orders quickly. You need to talk to our cousin, Amajid, because he was hosting us. You need to invite him. You have to talk to him nicely and push to bring them with us because they take care of us for a long time. Now we have to repay them. Also, go to our Uncle Ayman because they wanted to have invited by you, not us. It's a bit weird. Like, OK, I'll do this, and you pack the luggage, and you'll do that. And they refused to leave before cleaning everything.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They wouldn't leave without cleaning the house?
Yousef Hammash
Yep, cleaning the house, kitchen, bathrooms.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Even though you're fleeing bombing?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, because they will-- yeah, that was actually weird from them, but this is how they think. And I really respect it because we leave it better than the way we have. This is how we show respect. And we had to clean.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And then you left.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Then we left.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did it--
Yousef Hammash
And it was the first time for them since the beginning of the war to see the sea.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh.
Yousef Hammash
And they were very, very excited and happy.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did they respond to the tents when you showed them where they're staying?
Yousef Hammash
I was expecting that they will be like, eh, it's not nice, but they were happy. It's like, OK, it's nice. It's good.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you feel nervous?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want them to see that-- to prove for them that I did my best. And I was checking on them inside the tents. What do you think? It's warm. There is two layers for the tent, one for if it's rain and one inside. I was trying to convince them as, you know these sale people who is trying to convince you to buy something?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Uh-huh. That was you?
Yousef Hammash
That's exactly what I was. That was me today. Yeah, it's nice, good. We'll do with the bathroom here. We'll get something there. Here, we can turn on the fire. And I was like, oh, one minute. I'll get you internet tomorrow, and I will get you lights here. Our neighbors have a solar panel. He will connect us some lights. Yeah, I was doing that sale man. And they were happy.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They were? Did they give you the response you wanted?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's nice. Also, in our way coming, we went through one of the camps that people are just building tents in the streets. And they saw how miserable the situation is, so. And I meant to go there before taking them to our place.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You did it on purpose?
Yousef Hammash
Exactly, because I want them to see how people are living to prove for them that I did my best managing what I could. And when I met them today, I found out that they didn't eat for two days. They only eat rice. So first thing I was thinking about, like, preparing a really big meal for them, and they were surprised I had barbecues and kebab. And I was like, no, no, no.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So they had a meal? You had a meal together?
Yousef Hammash
A very big one. It was very expensive one, but I was like, OK, I'll feed you until you've had more than enough. [LAUGHS]
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wow.
Yousef Hammash
And so after fasting for two days, it worked to provide them with something really good.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did they appreciate it?
Yousef Hammash
Ooh, a lot. They were very happy. I was very happy also having this meal. [LAUGHS]
[PHONE RINGING]
Hello, Chana.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Yousef. How are you doing?
Yousef Hammash
Good, all good.
Chana Joffe-Walt
This call, five days after I started speaking to Yousef, was the first time I talked to him when he was not agonizing over his sisters and how to get them out of Khan Yunis. They were there, their first day in their new place, settling in. There still wasn't a bathroom, but Yousef had asked a neighbor if his family could use their bathroom until his was up and running. He went to work that morning, made it a couple hours into the day when he got a call from his youngest sister, Aseel.
Yousef Hammash
It's too complicated.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wait. Tell me what happened with your sister.
Yousef Hammash
So Aseel today wanted to go to the bathroom, and she waited. So there is, in the land next to us, they have a bathroom, and they're friends of mine. And my neighbor is hosting more than 60 people. So they have to wait in line to earn this bathroom. It's a single bathroom.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, wow. How pregnant is she? When is she due?
Yousef Hammash
So she is at the seventh month, about to finish it. And she cannot wait. She's pregnant, and it's a bit embarrassing for her. And so she starts to cry. And then she called me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
While she was in line?
Yousef Hammash
So she cried several times, and she were hopeless. Then she started to cry and decided to go back to Khan Yunis
Chana Joffe-Walt
[GASPS]
Yousef Hammash
She decided that, and she called me, and she told me I'm leaving to Khan Yunis now. Oh, that's changed the day. I had to go back [LAUGHS] to meet my sister, take her to the bathroom, spend an hour or more. I went, I stopped the line.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did the 60 people waiting respond to that?
Yousef Hammash
It went OK. There was someone inside, and I told them no one is getting inside. No one goes to the bathroom, hallas, until my sister finished.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Was she seriously thinking about going back to Khan Yunis?
Yousef Hammash
I don't think so. It shows me that she needs me. I need to find a solution now. She's above the limits.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The whole week, Yousef had been telling me that he needed his family close to him so he could think rationally about what was going on around him. Now, they're here with all the joy and irritation that comes with having family close by.
They're together in Rafah. They've moved from the very north of Gaza all the way down, the furthest south they can go. There is nowhere else. They're at the bottom edge of the Gaza Strip, on the border with Egypt. Yousef can think a little bit about what's next.
Yousef Hammash
What makes it a bit harder on me that I've been outside Gaza. I know how it looks like outside. First time I've been out outside of Gaza was last year.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And it was for your job to--
Yousef Hammash
Yes, to Norway with NRC. And when I arrived to Oslo, Norway, and the airport, they stamp my passport, and she said, welcome.
And it was weird for me. There is no interrogation. They're not going to question me, anything. They are not going to look for me as a terrorist. And they're not going to check my bags or my body or my-- they just allow me to enter, and it feels weird. It feels weird in a way that I want them to check me and interrogate me. Like, this is not you. This is not the usual. Come on, guys. You have to--
Chana Joffe-Walt
You have to do your job.
Yousef Hammash
--ask me some questions. Yeah, come on. You have to ask me something. You have to ask me where I live or whatever. Who is my neighbor, or what I do, or what's my relation with the militant groups in Gaza. You have to ask me about anything. Come on.
And I saw how the world is massive. For me, Gaza was a bit big. Gaza is very, very narrow piece of land. And for me, it was huge. But when I saw the world outside of Gaza, I was like, guys, we are living in a small neighborhood.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What felt different?
Yousef Hammash
Everything is different. Cannot imagine how I was feeling when I saw the first time an airplane or an airport. I felt like I'm four years old.
And I was saying always, I'm Gazan more than any Gazan here because I've never been outside. And when I went outside, I understood how it feels. I saw how people are living their life. And I totally understand why they don't really care about us. They are busy with their lives.
There is an entire generation never been outside of Gaza. And what my children, what they have been through is something unimaginable, and they don't deserve that. What is the world expecting from this generation after 15 years when they lived through all of this?
Chana Joffe-Walt
What do you expect?
Yousef Hammash
More violence. How they are going to think rationally?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you worry about that with your own children?
Yousef Hammash
I made that decision. And when this war finish, if we survive, I will take them outside. I'm not allowing my children to go through this situation again.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You want to leave?
Yousef Hammash
[SIGHS] It's-- I know it's going to be really, really difficult. Gaza is part of us, ya'ani. And I know it's-- but, ah, it's really hard to think about that now, to be honest, in the middle of the war. But I made a decision that without thinking about it, they are not going to stay here. So it's 10:30 now, so--
Chana Joffe-Walt
You want to go to bed.
Yousef Hammash
--it's pretty--
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, and at least it's gone now. I could catch some before they start shooting or something.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah, you should do that.
Yousef Hammash
OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Have a nice night. Salaam alechum. Bye.
Credits
Ira Glass
Yousef Hammash in Gaza, talking to Chana Joffe-Walt. This story was produced by Nancy Updike, edited by me and Nancy and Emanuele Berry; mixed by Katherine Rae Mondo; fact-checked by Jane Ackermann. Special thanks today to Shaina Low, Nabil Shawkat, Hany Hawasly, Anas Baba, Brian Castner, Dror Sadot, and Mark Garlasco. The show comes to you from WBEZ Chicago and PRX, the Public Radio International. We'll be back this weekend, just a couple of days from now, with a new episode for you.