825: Yousef
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Act One: Act One
Ira Glass
From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass.
[PHONE DIALING]
Yousef Hammash
Hello.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, this is Yousef Hammash?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, it is, loud and clear.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Good. Is this still a OK time for you to talk?
Yousef Hammash
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, but it's a bit crazy outside, a lot of crowdness. There is a lot of traffic, especially from the children. Let me find a quiet place.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Close the door. Yes.
Ira Glass
For months, one of our producers, Chana Joffe-Walt, has been talking to Yousef Hammash. He's in Gaza. Back in December, we put out an extra podcast episode, a bonus mini episode with some of those conversations.
But so much has happened since then. We wanted to come back to Yousef and do a full episode. And that is what we have for you today. It is a series of unusually frank conversations about what he and his family were experiencing, sometimes as they were experiencing it, and about the decisions they made with the choices they had.
So what we're going to do is we're going to play you a lot of stuff from December and then what has happened since then. Yousef is in his early 30s, got two kids and a big extended family. He works for a humanitarian organization operating in Gaza, the Norwegian Refugee Council, the NRC.
And Chana started talking to Yousef in early December, really knowing very little about him or his situation at the beginning. And as you'll hear, more and more unfolds and gets revealed. At that point, he had just relocated with his wife and kids to Rafah, where the NRC office is. Rafah is in the south of Gaza. It's at the border with Egypt. His family was living in the NRC office there.
And so Yousef was in the unusual situation in Gaza where he often did have internet access with solar panels providing power. Meanwhile, the rest of his extended family, including four sisters, was about eight miles away in a town called Khan Yunis. Here's Chana.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So, talk to me about what did you do today.
Yousef Hammash
Today, I had to find a place for my extended family, which, humdullah, I found it today. I found a place, and I built a tent-- two tents, actually, because I couldn't find a house to rent or anything. So, tomorrow, I will move the rest of my family here to Rafah from Khan Yunis to these two tents. And today, it takes me a while building these tents.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is there anybody in the family that is hesitant? Do you have to--
Yousef Hammash
Yes, we have had-- I had-- yes, yes, yeah, yeah, they are part of the family. Yeah, even a few minutes ago, I was having this debate with my sister that was like, OK, I'm pregnant. Because she's pregnant, and she don't want to do the delivery in a tent. And she said like, OK, they are still far, like 1 kilometer away, the tanks. She said that we cannot suffer more. At least we have here bathroom.
The main debate was a bathroom, about having your privacy to use a bathroom. Because when you are fleeing in a tent, there is no bathrooms or that privacy. Well, I'm trying. Tomorrow, I'll find a way to build a bathroom for them.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef has been moving and convincing his sisters to move since the war began. They all started the war in Jabalia, in the northern part of Gaza. After October 7, when Hamas attacked southern Israel and killed around 1,200 people, took about 240 people hostage, Yousef immediately moved his family from Jabalia to his parents' house in a nearby city, Beit Lahiya. They moved the very next day, October 8.
On October 9, Israeli airstrikes hit Jabalia, and then again on October 12, 19, 22, 31, November 1, 2, 4, and on. Yousef and his family and his sisters' families then fled south to Khan Yunis. They stayed with relatives until Yousef read a leaflet that fell from the sky. It said, you must evacuate immediately and go to shelters in the city of Rafah. The city of Khan Yunis is a dangerous combat zone. Forewarned is forearmed. It was signed the Israeli Defense Forces.
That's when he fled to Rafah with his wife and his kids. By that point in the war, over 15,000 people in Gaza had been killed. The place Yousef works, the NRC, had rented an office in Rafah, in the area the Israelis were now saying was a safe zone. Yousef moved his immediate family into the office, but his sisters and their families weren't so sure they wanted to follow this time. So Yousef, from the moment he got to Rafah, had been pushing his sisters in Khan Yunis to come. He'd been at that for almost a week.
Yousef Hammash
To be honest, each one of them have its own personality, and I have to persuade her the way I know. Each one of them. One of them, she's worried about her father-in-law and mother-in-law and was like, OK, they are not safe, and they are on the street. I'll build them a tent. But I want to make sure that you are with me here. I'll bring them also.
The other one, I had to do the same option with her. OK, I'll bring your father-in-law and their entire family. I'll take care of them. But I want you to come here.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What about the woman who's pregnant?
Yousef Hammash
I keep doing-- yeah, the one who is pregnant, she's the youngest. And she's the most stubborn one. Yeah, she's the youngest. When we came to the south, there was no military operation on the ground. She refused, and her father-in-law and mother-in-law refused. I had a fight with them. And I told them, listen, I want my sister with me. And we had a bit of argue because they didn't expect what's coming.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah, I hadn't thought about how each time, you have to mentally convince yourself that the place that you're in, which is feeling OK at that moment, might not feel OK very soon.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, because, yeah, and who would ever imagine that the Israeli tanks will be in the center of Jabalia camp? Or who would ever imagine that they would be in Shifa Hospital? These things, we never imagined that it will be a real thing that we are seeing by our own eyes. We never thought about that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef was lobbying his sisters to move as hard as he could. But honestly, he himself wasn't always totally sure about bringing them to Rafah. Yousef kept searching for new information about what the Israeli military was planning to do next. He'd ask everyone he met, looked everywhere online, except a few places he avoided.
Yousef Hammash
I don't open my Facebook, for example, or Instagram because all my friends from Gaza are there. Because I don't want to know who's dead. I don't want to know. And I don't have the time to respect these people who I lose. By coincidence, a few days ago, I found out that my uncle is dead. I didn't know about that before. And a friend of mine told me that. Oh, yaniya. We were just having a chat, and I mentioned him. And he didn't know that he was my uncle. And I was talking like that, oh, he's my uncle. And he's like, oh, yeah, I'm sorry for your loss. I was like, what?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Aw.
Yousef Hammash
I didn't know. It was like two weeks ago. He's dead. He's killed two weeks ago in Jabalia while I didn't know.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did that come up in that conversation?
Yousef Hammash
We were mentioning where his parents living in Jabalia, and I was like, OK, my relatives living there. They are from Ajouri family. And he was like, yeah, yeah, I know them. I was like, yeah, he's my uncle. He's like, yeah, sorry for your loss. And I was like, no, no, no, he's alive. He's not. He was killed in an airstrike. I know, I know. And I felt a bit stupid. And it was really weird feeling that I didn't know that my uncle is dead since two weeks. He was killed.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you--
Yousef Hammash
The other thing-- OK, just to continue on this story--
Chana Joffe-Walt
Please.
Yousef Hammash
Yesterday, my brother who lives in Sweden, my cousin, who is the son of my uncle I mentioned, he was asking my brother to check if I have information about his father. And I don't want to be that-- also to deliver the news for him that his father was killed.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Have you told him?
Yousef Hammash
No, I told him there is no connection between the south and the north. And it's impossible to reach anyone there, which is true 'cause there is no phone call. There is nothing that-- you cannot reach anyone in the north. And I was like, I will try to check what's the situation, but I didn't want to be the one who's giving the news.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, Yousef. So you just couldn't bring yourself to tell him what you had heard?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Even my mother, who is with me now, doesn't know.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is it her brother?
Yousef Hammash
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And you're not going to tell her?
Yousef Hammash
Definitely not. And I'm saying that here because I'm sure that they don't understand English, first of all. And second thing, they won't listen-- sorry for that. But they're in Gaza. They won't listen to this podcast to know from this podcast that-- yeah.
Ah. I always don't-- ya'ani. It's one of the first times that I really speak about these things, and it seems weird for me that I always, in front of everyone around me, I'm the man who's managing everything and supporting anyone in need. And if you need anything, the best one to call is Yousef, you know. Now, I'm helpless, useless. And I cannot do anything. I cannot even manage my own need.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So, if your uncle comes up, your mom mentions him or your wife says, oh, I wonder how he's doing, you will not say anything?
Yousef Hammash
It happens, and I didn't say anything. Yes, it happened yesterday, and I was like, no, I am not going to say anything. My brain was like circling around, and I was like, OK, you have to tell her. She deserves to know that her brother is dead. And I was like, no. It's her right to know, and she will blame me a lot when she knows that I was knowing without telling her. I have to shut down my brain. It's like, no, you turn off. It's not your role now.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Not your what?
Yousef Hammash
It's not your role.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Not your role.
Yousef Hammash
You don't need to be functioning now.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Mm-hmm, yeah. Focus on building tents.
Yousef Hammash
I have-- to be honest, I have plenty of to-do list. On my list, there's many things. My priority now, it's the time to secure my family and manage their needs more than anything else. For me, looking for their safety, it's not about them only. It's more about me. I cannot imagine for a moment losing one of them, one of my sisters. It has to be me before them.
Because I don't have the strength to even to think about losing one of them. That's why I'm doing it, not because of you-- it's because of me. I don't have that. I am weak to have the strength to handle losing any one of them. I don't have that strength.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you think they do it for you?
Yousef Hammash
Ya'ani, they came to Khan Yunis with me for me. No one agreed. It was really hard, and I had to fight with my mother. And it was like-- but they came because I want them. I want them to be with me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So they do it for you.
Yousef Hammash
That time, yes, it was for me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And this time?
Yousef Hammash
This time, I think I will prepare everything. I will prepare the tents. I'll find you a place. Then I'll move you once when everything's ready to have you. And what pushed me to finish everything today is that Benjamin Netanyahu, he was threatening Hezbollah. He was like saying, Hezbollah, you should stop what you are doing because if start a war, we will turn Beirut into Gaza and Khan Yunis. So I was like, OK, now it's Khan Yunis. I need to grab them from there. They are in the center of Khan Yunis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you send them that quote?
Yousef Hammash
Yep. [LAUGHS] Because a lot of people stay until the last moment. And when they evacuate, they will evacuate under bombing. And I don't want my sisters to experience that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What does the tent look like?
Yousef Hammash
Ah, so there is two types of tents. Now I became expert, by the way.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I was going to ask you how you know to build tents so quickly.
Yousef Hammash
So one I get it through NRC, where I work. And it was with instruction. That was easy. The other one is like wooden sticks with plastic. The hardest part was finding a suitable place to rent a small land, not randomly in the streets. It's a agricultural area. It's a bit sandy everywhere.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you rent a land. You didn't just--
Yousef Hammash
A lot of airstikes. Wow.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I'm sorry, what?
Yousef Hammash
No, it was massive airstrike. [LAUGHS]
Chana Joffe-Walt
Just now?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah. Yes. Another airstrike. They're getting crazy somehow, all of this in Khan Yunis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The explosions are in Khan Yunis right now?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another one.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
What's going on? I'll call you in a minute, OK?
Chana Joffe-Walt
No problem. No problem.
Yousef Hammash
I just need to check, OK?
Chana Joffe-Walt
No problem.
Yousef Hammash
Just one minute, and I'll call you back.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Take your time. Bye.
Yousef Hammash
Because it seems really massive there. OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, bye. Hi.
Yousef Hammash
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, sorry.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is everybody OK?
Yousef Hammash
Just want to make sure that they're still alive. Yeah, they're alive.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Do you literally write, are you alive?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it was a funny message from my sister. Are you alive?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wait, that's funny?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, because I had to send emojis laughing. That's how we are talking always, even when I'm with them. It's like, OK, we have one more day to live. Let's enjoy it. Maybe two days. OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you wrote her, are you alive, smiley face?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, my God. Yeah, and she writes back yes, or she laughs?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, she laughs. And she said it's a bit calm. A bit calm. OK, I don't know what this means, a bit calm, but ya'ani.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I'll let you go. I've taken so much of your time.
Yousef Hammash
Thank you so much.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And tomorrow, what's going to happen is your sisters are going to move?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, this is going to be the early thing for me to do in the morning because I don't want them to move under the bombing. So I want to evacuate them when it's a bit calm and manageable without risks. So I'll do it in the early morning. But maybe because of this rain-- ahh, I need to assess the situation tomorrow morning. I promise them that we will make decision together this time tomorrow morning.
Chana Joffe-Walt
But you've already made the decision that you want them to go.
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK. I hope you have an easy night, and I will check in with you tomorrow.
Yousef Hammash
That's a good phrase-- easy night. [LAUGHS] OK, inshallah. Thank you. Thank you.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, bye.
Yousef Hammash
Thank you. Bye-bye.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Yousef?
Yousef Hammash
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did your sisters move today?
Yousef Hammash
Unfortunately, not yet. They were refusing to leave without a bathroom, but today, there were a lot of tanks and airstrikes. No, I promised them that tomorrow it's going to be-- there will be a bathroom tomorrow. And I'll make my best to make it happen.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I want to jump in and say a little bit about what Yousef doing his best looks like, an incomplete summary of that particular day. He spent the morning trying to track down trucks for the Norwegian Refugee Council, where he works. The trucks were full of aid, things like bedding, tents, buckets for water, that should have arrived at the border, but he couldn't check online if they were there because the system was down, and the phones weren't working. So he went in person, wandered around, looking at plate numbers. Could not find the trucks.
Then he went to the market to find medicine for his wife, Manal, who's sick. Could not find medicine. In the midst of all this, he got a call from another relative who was fleeing and needed a place to stay in Rafah. Yes, yes, you can come, Yousef told him. One more tent.
Near his sister's tents, Yousef saw a guy building a bathroom, hired that guy, but he's busy until tomorrow. The bathroom guy told Yousef he needed to find supplies. So Yousef spent hours searching for cement, stones, and a water tank. He found a water tank, but it was in a different part of Gaza. So Yousef paid more than the price of the water tank to get it transported.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I was picturing like a hole in the ground that you were going to build near-- you were going to dig near the tents. But you're building an actual bathroom with water and walls.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, so that's actually, that was a condition from my sisters.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So, is that the first thing for you tomorrow?
Yousef Hammash
Definitely, yes. It will be happening for sure tomorrow because, ya'ani, a few-- two hours ago or less, there was an airstrike near them, and it takes me half an hour or more just trying to call, trying to call. I couldn't reach anyone. That's freaking me out. And I cannot handle the situation again. And I managed to reach my sister, Aseel. And they are fine. There's a lot of gas and a lot of bombing, but we are fine. And that's what-- and this is when we agreed, hallas, tomorrow you are moving. And I will come to pick you tomorrow.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, you did?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So she definitely agreed.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah. I then-- sorry. [SPEAKING ARABIC] Are we recording or something? Because my son is just annoying me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
That's OK. I like hearing him. How old is he?
Yousef Hammash
2 year and a 1/2.
Chana Joffe-Walt
2 and 1/2.
Yousef Hammash
Ilya! [SPEAKING ARABIC] I'm just asking them to close the door. [SPEAKING ARABIC] Last night, I had to stay awake and until-- Ahmed who cannot sleep without being kissed 1,000 times on his cheeks until he sleeps. Sometimes when he feels that I'm tired of kissing him, he gives me his hand to kiss it.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So that you have it close to you?
Yousef Hammash
Exactly. Yeah, he likes to give me some rest sometimes. OK, you can kiss my hand. I don't know how he get this habit, but I don't mind it. And for me, it's OK. I'm really grateful for the rain. It start raining. Then that reduced the sound of bombing. And also, you can use, no, this is thunder strike. So we are lucky today. I can-- we can manipulate that, so ya'ani.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you'll tell them in the night, if they hear a noise--
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it's raining. It's raining. It's raining. You know, it's a thunder strike. It's raining, ya'ani. I don't know. At the beginning, it was a bit easy to convince them that this is fireworks or thunder strike, but then even my daughter, Illya, which is five years old, now can understand that this is airstrike. Even my son, Ahmed, who is 2 years and 1/2, and he can say like a bombing. This is from airplane. And he keep using this word gussuff, gussuff which means strikes. And-- what the hell? That's another massive airstrike.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is it close to you?
Yousef Hammash
Uh, no. If it was close, you would hear it.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, OK.
Yousef Hammash
I failed to convince them that this is not a war. And I felt that they know that this is a war at that age. And they see how we are shouting. My sisters are crying, or it's not enough anymore for my children, when they feel panic from bombing, to run towards us. They start scream without even running towards us because, somehow, they understood that we don't have that ability to protect them.
And that's something really awful when you understand that your children understand that you cannot protect them. When I start to feel useless in front of my children and I found that I cannot protect my children, I deeply regret it because--
Chana Joffe-Walt
You regret what?
Yousef Hammash
What is the meaning as a father? I regret having children here. What is the meaning for me as a father if I cannot protect them?
Chana Joffe-Walt
You regret having children? Having children in Gaza?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Definitely, I regret. I made them. I made that decision. And I had children in Gaza while I know the consequences, but I wasn't imagining that we will go through this. Because I am a man of responsibility. I'm responsible for these children to secure their life and future. If I know that they will live through this, I would never, ever even get married here.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You would never get married. Is that what you said?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. Is a part of that feeling like I should have known not to do this, or--
Yousef Hammash
It's I should never have did that decision.
[PHONE DIALING]
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Yousef. Do you have a couple of minutes?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did today go?
Yousef Hammash
Oof, it was really, really long day. Had to start really early, and it was a lot of things to do.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did they move?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They moved?
Yousef Hammash
So I brought them all. Yeah, they moved.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wow, you did it. Took you--
Yousef Hammash
Oof, it was really a lot. [LAUGHS] Last night, they were texting me about a lot of bombing. The house next to them was bombed. Another house behind them was bombed. And so they wanted to move. They wanted to go at last.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef, the house next to them was bombed last night?
Yousef Hammash
Yes. Yeah, last night was a bit harsh when they started texting me that the bombing is around us. What?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. But there was an airstrike that hit a property right next to them.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, but it's a drone strike. So, OK, we have different types of missiles that the Israelis are using. So there is the F-16, which is warplanes and this American-made weapon that are destroying entire neighborhoods. The drones have smaller bombs that destroy a house or half of the house. They were afraid that the bombing might be in the same house because it's four floors, and they are on the first one. So that's why they didn't argue me and like, yes, let's move.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you think about going in the night?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, I told them I'm coming.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You texted back, I'm coming?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, and they were freaking out that I will come. And my wife prevented me. My sisters were texting me, do not come. There is a lot of bombing in the street in front of the house. Do not come.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef waited till the sun came up and then drove to Khan Yunis. He says on his way there, he could hear gunfire and explosions all around him.
Yousef Hammash
The first thing I did in the morning is, I went there, pack up in the car my sisters and their children. And then I came, and then I sent another car, like a small van, small bus, so I can have the bags and everything and my brothers-in-law.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Was there a part of you that felt a little frustrated, like I told you guys you should have come earlier? I didn't want it to get to this.
Yousef Hammash
That's exactly the first thing I said today when I met them.
Chana Joffe-Walt
[LAUGHS] That was how you greeted them?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did you say?
Yousef Hammash
And the first thing was like, I told you. 'Cause it was a lot of bombing, a lot of tanks. Like, I told you before. We don't need to run away under shelling and bombing. But now we did it. Khalas. Every time it had to be the same situation.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So, overnight, you're worried about their survival, and you're panicked, and you want to drive to get them in the middle of the night. But in the morning, you greet them with, "I told you so." This is what I said was going to happen.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah. I was blaming them. So there is no discussion. We are leaving.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So you didn't like hug them and cry and say, I'm so glad you survived. You said, get in the car.
Yousef Hammash
No, no, we have a different type of relation. It's not about hugging them. I was laughing. You should have died. I should be in the morgue now. [CHUCKLES] This is how I am with my sisters.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And did they laugh? What did they say?
Yousef Hammash
Hadir was like, ah, you know. Actually, they will start to give me orders quickly. You need to talk to our cousin, Amajid, because he was hosting us. You need to invite him. You have to talk to him nicely and push to bring them with us because they take care of us for a long time. Now we have to repay them.
Also, go to our Uncle Ayman because they wanted to have invited by you, not us. It's a bit weird. Like, OK, I'll do this. And you pack the luggage, and you do that. And they refused to leave before cleaning everything.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They wouldn't leave without cleaning the house?
Yousef Hammash
Yep, cleaning the house, kitchen, bathrooms,
Chana Joffe-Walt
Even though you're fleeing bombing?
Yousef Hammash
Yes, because they will-- yeah, yeah, that was actually weird from them. But this is how they think, and I really respect it because we leave it better than the way we have. This is how we show respect. And we had to clean.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And then you left.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
Then we left.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did it--
Yousef Hammash
And so it was the first time for them since the beginning of the war to see the sea.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh.
Yousef Hammash
And they were very, very excited and happy.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did they respond to the tents when you showed them where they're staying?
Yousef Hammash
I was expecting that they will be like, ah, it's not nice. It's whatever. But they were happy. It's like, OK, it's nice. It's good.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you feel nervous?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want them to see that-- to prove for them that I did my best. And I was checking on them inside the tents. What do you think? It's warm. There is two layers for the tent, one for if it's rain and one inside. I was trying to convince them as you know these sale people who is trying to convince you to buy something?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Uh-huh. That was you?
Yousef Hammash
That's exactly what I was. That was me today. Yeah, no, it's nice. Good. We'll do with the bathroom here. We'll get something there. Here, we can turn on the fire. And I was like, oh, well, maybe I'll get you internet tomorrow. And I will get you lights here. Our neighbors have a solar panel. He will connect us some lights. Yeah, I was trying-- I was doing that salesman. And they were happy.
Chana Joffe-Walt
They were? Did they give you the response you wanted?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's nice. Also, in our way coming, we went through one of the camps that people are just building tents in the streets. And they saw how miserable the situation is. And I meant to go there before taking them to our place.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You did it on purpose?
Yousef Hammash
Exactly, because I want them to see how people are living to prove for them that I did my best, managing what I could. When I met them today, I found out that they didn't eat for two days. They only eat rice. So first thing I was thinking about preparing a really big meal for them, and they were surprised. I had barbecues and kebab. And I was like, no, no, no.
Chana Joffe-Walt
So they had a meal? You had a meal together?
Yousef Hammash
A very big one. It was very expensive one, but I was like, OK, I'll feed you until you've had more than enough. [LAUGHS]
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wow.
Yousef Hammash
And so, after fasting for two days, it was to provide them with something really good.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did they appreciate it?
Yousef Hammash
Ooh, a lot. They were very happy. I was very happy also, having this meal.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The next day, Yousef went to work, his family getting settled right nearby. He made it a couple hours into the day when he got a call from his youngest sister, Aseel.
Yousef Hammash
It's too complicated.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wait, tell me what happened with your sister.
Yousef Hammash
So Aseel today wanted to go to the bathroom, and she waited. So there is in the land next to us, they have a bathroom and they are friends of mine. And my neighbor is hosting more than 60 people. So they have to wait in line to earn this bathroom. It's a single bathroom.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, wow.
Yousef Hammash
[SIGHS] Well, yes, and she cannot wait. She is pregnant and ya'ani. It's a bit embarrassing for her. And so she started to cry, and then she called me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
While she was in line?
Yousef Hammash
So she tried several times, and she was hopeless. Then she started to cry and decided to go back to Khan Yunis.
Chana Joffe-Walt
[GASPS]
Yousef Hammash
She decided that, and she called me and she told me, I am leaving to Khan Yunis now. Oh, that changed the day. I had to go back to meet my sister, take her to the bathroom, spend an hour or more. I stopped the line.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How did the 60 people waiting respond to that?
Yousef Hammash
Ah, it went OK. I told them no one is getting inside. No one goes to the bathroom, hallas, until my sister finished.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Was she seriously thinking about going back to Khan Yunis?
Yousef Hammash
I don't think so. It shows me that she needs me. I need to find a solution now. She's above the limit.
Chana Joffe-Walt
How pregnant is she? When is she due?
Yousef Hammash
That's another alarming thing. So she is at the seventh month, about to finish it. So I guess she is going [SIGHS] through a lot.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The whole week, Yousef had been telling me he needed his family close to him. Now, they're here. They're together in Rafah. They'd moved from the very north of Gaza all the way down, at the bottom edge of the Gaza Strip on the border with Egypt. Yousef was now responsible for his own camp of about 60 people, one of whom was eight months pregnant, and all of whom were looking to him to tell them, what now? What's the plan?
Ira Glass
Chana Joffe-Walt. Coming up, things do not go like Yousef planned. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.
Act Two: Act Two
Ira Glass
It's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Today, we're telling the story of Yousef Hammash. He spent months moving his family from one place to another in Gaza, trying to keep them safe. Until, finally, at the end of last year, he got them out of Rafah, an enormous feat that-- I don't want to idealize Yousef here, but there are few people who have the special combination of resources and familial relationships and trust and also skills and planning abilities and really luck to pull off what Yousef just pulled off-- getting 60 people to Rafah housed and together and seemingly, for the moment, safe.
So, by the beginning of this year, they're all settled in Rafah, waiting. But every day, there's talk that Israel is going to launch a ground assault in Rafah next. And Aseel, Yousef's youngest sister, is about to give birth. Again, here's Chana.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I really wanted to talk to Yousef's sister, Aseel. Once he got them all to Rafah, she was the one Yousef was thinking about the most, talked about the most. The funny sister, the emotional sister. Also the one most like Yousef-- resourceful, determined. Yousef told me once Aseel settled in Rafah, she quickly started taking things into her own hands.
First of all, the tents Yousef built, they were too crowded and loud. Aseel built her own tent with her husband. Every time Yousef went to visit the camp, he'd find everyone in Aseel's tent, hanging out. She began to rebuild other parts of her life there, too. Aseel is a nurse. People in the camp began bringing her their medical questions. She'd advise, follow up, try to source medications for them when she could. Aseel's tent became part living room, part clinic.
Yousef had always told me Aseel was his youngest and most stubborn sister. But when she arrived in Rafah, he added, she's also the least fazed. Difficult things do not rattle Aseel, which is why the moment she'd called him, crying in line to the bathroom, was so alarming to him.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, she usually doesn't complain. She doesn't complain. Usually, Aseel is the most-- between my sister, I look to Aseel as the most wise. She's young, but she's expert. She's in love with nursing and all of this. She reads a lot. I spoke a lot about Aseel. And trust me, you'll be surprised when you talk to her.
Chana Joffe-Walt
It was really hard to reach Aseel.
Aseel
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Aseel. This is Chana.
Aseel
Hi finally.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, finally the famous sister.
Aseel
[LAUGHS] Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
The internet is OK now?
Aseel
Erm, yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK. Did I lose you?
It was not OK.
Aseel
The internet is really bad. Uh, one minute, please.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, OK.
The was no internet at the tents and hardly any cell connection. I'd try catch Aseel on the internet at Yousef's office or on her phone.
Aseel
Hi, Chana.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi. Can you hear me?
Aseel
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Aseel
We will try.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK, OK.
I learned things in scraps of conversation that were maybe two or three minutes long, some voice memos, text messages. Just as Aseel had managed her situation at the camp, she took control of her plans for childbirth, too.
Aseel told me she'd never been fearful of childbirth. She'd seen lots of births as a nurse. She was actually working in labor and delivery in Gaza City when the war started. She'd imagined it. She could do it. She said, when it comes to health care matters, I'm capable of controlling the situation for myself and those around me.
When she had to flee her home, leave behind the doctor she loved and the hospital she had planned to deliver in, Aseel just made a new plan. She found a new hospital and a new doctor in Khan Yunis. When that fell apart and she fled to Rafah, Aseel brought Yousef into her planning process.
In Rafah, Aseel and Yousef worked in tandem. They figured out where she could deliver-- a small maternity hospital. They mapped out a route to the hospital. Rafah is so packed with traffic and people now, it can take hours to get across the city, so Yousef studied routes and Google Maps. And he practiced driving to the hospital on back streets through farmland and bumpy dirt roads.
Aseel didn't want to bring a newborn back to the tent in the cold, so Yousef asked the NRC if Aseel and the baby could stay with him and the other staff living at the NRC office, just for a bit after the birth. They said yes.
At the camp, they got the bathroom up and running four days after Aseel arrived. By late January, Yousef and Aseel had a bathroom, a route to the hospital, and a postpartum plan. There was only one thing Aseel desperately wanted that she couldn't make happen herself. She told me in Arabic, when we were finally able to talk for a longer stretch.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
I've always prayed that I won't give birth until there's a truce. I don't want to start experiencing labor pain before there's a truce. God willing, it will happen.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Every day, there were small glimmers of a possible truce. Negotiations were underway for a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. It was the last week of January. Aseel was due February 4. With or without a truce, Aseel and Yousef had a plan.
Then, five days before her due date, they had an unexpected dry run that tested their plan. Aseel had contractions in the middle of the night. Yousef raced her to the hospital. It was a false alarm. The contractions subsided. But for the first time, Aseel got to see what it looked like inside the hospital.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
When you enter the hospital, there's an unimaginable number of displaced people. It's full of displaced people. When we were standing at the door, there was a woman coming from Abasan in Khan Yunis. They were displaced, and she came to the hospital in labor. Her water had already broken. She was standing at the door, waiting in line, because there are five or six beds inside, and they are all full. She was waiting for her turn to get examined, even though she couldn't stand. The baby came out while she was waiting at the door.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You saw her give birth, Aseel?
Aseel
Yeah. The baby is all--
Interpreter
Yeah, the baby is all-- the baby came out, and they laid her down on the floor to deliver the baby right there. There were no beds, not even in the maternity ward. They laid her down on the floor, and the midwife or the doctor came to deliver the baby with her on the ground.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, wow. In front of you.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
Yeah, I feared that I would be in her place. I imagined myself in her place, waiting for my turn to go in for labor, but then for it to happen at the door.
Chana Joffe-Walt
That night, in the hospital, everything suddenly felt very real to Aseel. She was about to give birth in a tiny hospital that used to have around 20 births a day, and now sometimes had 100. She would be delivering her first baby in a city that had 200,000 people just a few months ago and now had 1.5 million.
She was about to give birth in a hospital in the middle of a war that had killed 600 people inside medical facilities and obliterated the vast majority of health care services. She was about to have a child in a war where more than 10,000 children have been killed so far.
Aseel couldn't get unpregnant. She could pray for a ceasefire, but she couldn't wait for one. Aseel had imagined her birth so clearly before the war. But now she was imagining it in ways she never had before. What if she delivered at the hospital on the floor? What if she delivered in her tent alone? What if Israeli tanks came into Rafah while she was in labor? What if she was naked, pushing a baby out, when an Israeli soldier showed up at the door to her tent?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
Thinking about this by itself plants terror in my heart. That I could give birth and see the soldiers. The mere sight of the soldiers scares me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
And what if after she delivered her baby, she started bleeding? One horrifying thing Aseel knew was happening in Gaza right now is women who hemorrhage after birth are sometimes being given hysterectomies. I've talked to doctors and a midwife in Gaza who told me this is happening. It's happening for lots of reasons.
Hospitals don't have the routine medications that help stop bleeding after birth. They also don't have staff. The staff they do have don't have time. Pregnant women are coming in malnourished, sometimes with injuries and other complications. And they're going into labor severely anemic. So, if they hemorrhage after birth, which happens sometimes, things quickly become life threatening. They're using hysterectomies in Gaza because hysterectomies can be the fastest and safest way to save lives.
Of all the very real possibilities Aseel was now imagining, this was the one she feared the most. She'd deliver her baby, start bleeding, and they'd take her uterus. That night in the hospital, she begged a doctor for his attention. Is it safe here? I'm a medical professional, she said. Please help me. The doctor told her, if you can deliver somewhere else, you should. Aseel walked out of the hospital to the car where Yousef was waiting and told him, I cannot have my baby here.
Yousef Hammash
I could see it in her eyes today. I don't think I have the capacity to translate into English what she was saying, but it's related to medical stuff that he saw with other females there. So I was like, no, I'll find a solution. Tomorrow, I'll figure it out.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef began calling people he knew, asking about other options for delivering a baby in Rafah, maybe a private doctor who could deliver outside the hospital. But those conversations quickly became other conversations. His coworkers, friends, said, but Yousef, are you seeing this? Did you see what Yoav Gallant just said, the Israeli Defense minister? He's saying Rafah is next.
Yousef Hammash
Gallant, Yoav Gallant, who said that when we finish from Khan Yunis, we will go into Rafah. And that's a huge concern. For example, from where I am staying, the Israeli tanks in Al-Aqsa University, it's less than 1 kilometer. I can hear the tanks moving clearly. I can hear the clashes clearly. And I think if the Israelis decided to continue the ground operation in Rafah, it's going to take them three minutes to arrive me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
When Yousef thinks of those three minutes, he's not just thinking of himself. He's thinking of the 60 people he moved from other parts of Gaza to here. He's thinking how he promised this was the safest place to be.
Yousef Hammash
Building that camp, hosting these families, and then if the Israelis decided to start the ground operation in Rafah, it's going to be like an ambush. It's going to be like, I create an ambush for these families, bringing families to live in that place, and the Israelis killing. I don't know, you know.
Chana Joffe-Walt
It's going to be on you.
Yousef Hammash
Yes, at least I will feel it on me. Also, their relatives, their father-in-laws, all of them I'm hosting them in the camp I build. So I'm also responsible, at least, to inform these families that it's not safe here. I remember what happened in Khan Yunis also. And they would start talking about Khan Yunis, and they destroyed the entire city.
Chana Joffe-Walt
I know. I can't believe you're in this situation again. This is exactly where you were when we talked--
Yousef Hammash
Exactly.
Chana Joffe-Walt
--in early December.
Yousef Hammash
[SIGHS] Now that's a long time. That's a long time.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Are you thinking about moving again?
Yousef Hammash
I'll have to think about the options that I have, yeah, if we are going. And I was thinking about Deir al Balah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Why Deir al Balah? Why was that a place that you looked at?
Yousef Hammash
This is the only areas that considered safe by the Israelis. They said either Rafah or Deir al Balah. But today I was looking for the statistics of Deir al Balah. On a daily basis, there is at least five targeted, five houses targeted in Deir al Balah. So I have to think more twice about that. You cannot make a decision because nothing is clear.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. And did you find a doctor for Aseel?
Yousef Hammash
Uh, yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wow, you found a doctor already?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Is it incredibly expensive?
Yousef Hammash
She found it. We didn't agree yet, but I told him I'll pay whatever you want. I just want her to be safe and in an appropriate place and all of that. So I don't care about financial things.
Chana Joffe-Walt
February 3, the day before her due date, Yousef, the private doctor, and Aseel agreed on a new plan. She would deliver at a clinic outside the hospital. The doctor promised they were equipped to deal with complications there without doing a hysterectomy. Five days later, February 8, still no baby.
February 9, the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, ordered the military to develop a plan to evacuate Rafah, to clear the way for a ground assault on Rafah. That same day, I got a message from Yousef. Aseel is currently in the hospital for the birth. I called several hours later. Yousef was outside the hospital, waiting. Aseel was inside with his wife and their mom. He told me the baby had arrived. She was healthy. But he wasn't sure about his sister.
Yousef Hammash
But Aseel, she's still under watch inside. So, unfortunately, she was bleeding, so we are waiting.
Chana Joffe-Walt
She's bleeding?
Yousef Hammash
She did a natural birth, but I think she had an issue, and she was bleeding. The doctors, all the doctors at the hospital were running, trying to control it. So it was-- I couldn't get inside because I will see through a small window that there are so many doctors around. And it's like, what's going on there? And he told me that she's bleeding, and they're trying to control it. And then after that, he informed me that they control it, but they have to wait a bit. Ah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Where is her-- was her husband there?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, her husband is very young, so that's why I have to be there, even, to ask for everything because Aseel was like, I want Yousef here, right? My mother and so many women are screaming around. And I cannot keep hearing her screaming. That's why I had to go out. I have to leave.
Aseel
Hello?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Aseel.
Aseel
Hi, Chana.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Hi, Mabrouk.
Aseel
Hello. [SPEAKING ARABIC]
Chana Joffe-Walt
How are you doing?
Aseel
Thank you.
Chana Joffe-Walt
A week after she gave birth, I reached Aseel in Yousef's office. She was in bed with her mom and her new baby. She was incredibly weak. And she could not walk. Instead of the careful plan Aseel and Yousef made, she told me something very different happened. Her water broke in the middle of the night. They couldn't reach the private doctor. And Yousef couldn't get to Aseel quickly enough to drive her.
So a friend took her to exactly the place she didn't want to go-- the hospital. When she got there, she waited in the hallway, just as she feared, 12 hours in labor. She was begging for a room, a bed, for someone to help her.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
There was no room for me. There was no anesthetics, no nothing. I couldn't stand. I couldn't sit. I couldn't do anything. My sister spoke with the nurse there, and she told her I couldn't stand in line, and that I was about to give birth.
Chana Joffe-Walt
There was no chair for you to sit on?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
No, no, there was no chairs at all. There was only the doctor's chair. And I took it from her.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh.
Aseel sat in the hallway on the stolen chair for more hours, more contractions. She felt the baby's head, the need to push. Finally, they called her back, rushed her to a bed. But Aseel looked at the bed and froze.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
The bed sheet on it was the same one the woman before me gave birth on. It was covered in blood. So I took it off and told them to get the cleaner to wipe the bed.
Chana Joffe-Walt
While you were in labor?
Interpreter
Yes, yes. I couldn't sit in the bed, even with my pain. I'm willing to endure the pain a bit, but in a clean place and deliver the baby in a clean, sanitized place.
Chana Joffe-Walt
In bed, Aseel immediately had to push. She pushed, feeling utter panic, pushed and pushed without stopping, without breaks. She had an internal hemorrhage. The doctor made an incision to make the opening bigger. She bled more. The whole day, Aseel had been directing the people around her for a chair, for a clean sheet. But once the baby arrived, she lost control. The nurses took the baby. Then Aseel hemorrhaged for three hours, while doctors tried to stop the bleeding.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
Five doctors came in. I couldn't stay with them. I couldn't keep my eyes open. After about an hour of stitching and 28 stitches-- there was no anesthesia or anything-- I was appealing to God, 28 stitches between internal and external. I couldn't speak back to them or tell them I couldn't-- that I was dizzy. I couldn't speak to them at all. I had surrendered to the pain. He told me that if it didn't work, they'll be forced to do a hysterectomy. I kept quiet and prayed that it wouldn't happen.
I wasn't present, but I felt the thread going in. I felt the prick of the needle. I was crying a lot and praying to God that it would be the last stitch. Every time I prayed it would be the last stitch, they told me there was one more. You're almost there. This is the last one. I couldn't wait to leave the room. I couldn't move. And I was calling for my brother, saying, I can't do it, and for someone to get me out.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You were calling for Yousef?
Aseel
Yes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Why?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
Because he would try to control the bad things that happen to us. For me, it was like, you can help me in this matter, too. Come save me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Eventually, the doctors finished the stitches and gave Aseel a blood transfusion. An obstetrician practicing in Gaza told me Aseel was very lucky the hospital had blood that day. All the donated blood is from within Gaza, and most days, there's not enough. Aseel lost so much blood, she couldn't see clearly. Normally, after hemorrhaging that much, you'd stay in the hospital for a few days. It's hard to move. You're weak, in pain. There's danger of infection, fainting. She had the stitches. But Aseel was desperate to get out of there.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
They told me not to leave because I couldn't get up. The stitches hurt a lot. I told them I wanted to leave because the place is not clean and because the displaced go there, so you can't get rest. Yousef came to the hospital entrance. I couldn't get myself there, so I used a chair. They didn't have a wheelchair, so I used a normal chair for support. And I walked. I took the elevator down to the car.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You had to get yourself to the elevator with the help of a chair?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
Yes. I used the chair to get to the elevator. And when I got down, there's a 10-meter-long hallway or something like that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, my God.
Interpreter
And so I used the chair for support until I got to the car. Yousef then carried me into the car. He carried me and put me inside the car.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
I didn't even pay attention to the baby's features until I got a blood transfusion and started to feel better.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did she look like when you were able to see her?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
When I first saw her, I said she looked a lot like Yousef and his little son.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, really? Ahmed?
Aseel
Yeah, yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Did you feel happy about that?
Aseel
Yeah.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it was one of the longest days of my life.
Chana Joffe-Walt
That picture is so beautiful of you with the baby.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah. When I take it, I was happy and excited. Yeah, yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You look much skinnier. I hope it's OK to say that.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, yeah, I lost so much weight, you know. Canned food.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, that's fine.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yousef said, holding the baby, he felt immense relief.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, it reduced all that pressure that I was having for a couple of months about that moment. And finally, I reach it. It was a glimmer of hope. And I was waiting to have that feeling, all of that period, all that pressure in my head every day about Aseel's pregnancy, when she's going to do the birth, where, blah, blah, blah, all of that is over.
Chana Joffe-Walt
He got Aseel and the baby home from the hospital, or at least, to the office that is now home, where he'd created a bed for them to share with his mom. Everyone went to sleep. That night, at 1:00 in the morning, Yousef woke up to bombing. It was louder and brighter than anything he'd experienced in Rafah before. It felt like it was right nearby, inside Rafah.
Yousef Hammash
The house was shaking, huge bombardment. There's children screaming. And I thought that the Israelis, they start the operation, and I will find the tanks in front of my place. And that's it. I was going to-- I was about to put on my underwear because this is the way they take us men, wearing only underwear.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Wait, why were you going to put on your underwear?
Yousef Hammash
No, so, actually, I was joking, but usually, the Israelis, when they collect men, whenever they go on the ground and they collect men above 16 years old, wearing only underwear.
Chana Joffe-Walt
You mean they make them take off their clothes?
Yousef Hammash
Yeah.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Oh, that's a dark thought to have in the middle of the night.
Yousef Hammash
Actually, I was joking. I was telling Manal, my wife, I need to prepare the underwear. It should be warm. This is part of our life experience, so sorry. Yeah, it's kind of a joke. I know it's a dark humor, but that's me.
Chana Joffe-Walt
What did your wife say?
Yousef Hammash
It wasn't actually the right moment to make jokes. I don't usually find the right timing for to make jokes.
Chana Joffe-Walt
[LAUGHS] Manal was not appreciating your joke at that moment?
Yousef Hammash
No. No. Yeah, we had to collect the kids between us and trying to warm them and to calm them. And so we tried to get them back to sleep, but-- because nothing we can do more than that.
Chana Joffe-Walt
In the morning, Yousef was finally able to get online and figure out what just happened the night before. That night, Israel rescued two Israeli hostages from Rafah, two older men who'd been held captive for months since October 7.
And Israel killed, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, at least 94 Palestinians. Amnesty International says half the people killed in Rafah that night were children, including a two-week-old baby girl. That was Aseel's first night out of the hospital, in bed with her mom next to her, praying through six hours of bombing and the baby crying.
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
I couldn't move or anything. I was scared. I waited for Yousef to come down in the morning and asked him if there's going to be a ground invasion in Rafah because I couldn't walk. I couldn't carry the baby and stand.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Yeah. What did he say?
Aseel
[SPEAKING ARABIC]
Interpreter
He said, don't worry. That won't happen. I told him all I was worried about happened. Waiting in line in the hospital happened. The difficult labor happened. And now they are entering here? No, at least this one shouldn't happen.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Are you starting to doubt his reassurances when he says, don't worry?
Interpreter
No, for me, what he says is what happens. I believe him.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Right now, there are dozens of people waiting to see what Yousef says, what he's lining up for them next. He's launched into overdrive, calling friends, colleagues, carefully parsing official statements on a possible Rafah invasion, and looking for a place they could flee to, a building that's still standing, a piece of land he can rent and build tents-- exactly what he was doing when I first called him back in early December. Only now, he's exhausted. He's skinnier. His sister just had a baby and can't walk. Yousef has been quite ill several times. And 30,000 Palestinians have been killed since the war started.
And it's not over. Right now, for the first time since Yousef began moving his family on October 8 to keep them safe, Yousef is not finding options. This time, there really may not be anywhere to go.
Yousef Hammash
Actually, to be honest, I don't want to think about that because I know there is no solution. And it's going to be just a headache to go through details, what I will do. What-- Aseel, what about Habil, what about Heba, what about Salsabeel, what about my wife and the children, my mother. And it's responsibility above responsibility. And unfortunately, this time, I'm completely useless because I ran out of options. And when I think about it deeply, there is no solution. There is no option ahead of me. So what am I going to do?
Chana Joffe-Walt
I have never heard you talk like that, Yousef. I've never heard you say that. You're always the guy that's like, yeah, I'll figure it out. I'll call so-and-so tomorrow. Or no, we don't have it right now, but I'll figure it out.
Yousef Hammash
I don't have enough resources to manage this now. It's chaotic situation. And I don't think I'm mentally stable to take a decision now. I'm trying to avoid thinking about it because I'm not prepared because I don't have solutions. I don't have options ahead of me. When I have options, I'll start to think deeply about it. But up to now, I'm completely useless.
I'm calling my friends who are, ya'ani, scattered everywhere in Gaza. And they just keep searching, but I cannot find. My friend called me several times, actually. So I need to talk to him. Maybe I can call you back after?
Chana Joffe-Walt
Sure, sure.
Yousef Hammash
Yeah, OK, just I will try to get some news from him.
Chana Joffe-Walt
OK.
Yousef Hammash
OK. Thank you, Chana. Thank you. OK.
Chana Joffe-Walt
Bye. Thank you.
Yousef Hammash
Bye, bye, bye.
Credits
Ira Glass
Chana Joffe-Walt is one of the producers of our show. Well, our program was produced and edited today by Nancy Updike. The people who put together today's show include Jane Ackerman, Jendayi Bonds, Sean Cole, Michael Comite, Katherin Rae Mondo, Saifyah Riddle, Ryan Rumery, Laura Starcheski, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.
Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman, and our senior editor is David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emanuele Barry. Arabic interpreters and translators and research help from Emna Zghal, Nabil Shawkat, and Hany Hawasly. Aseel's English translation was read for us by Tara Abboud. Casting help from Sabrina Hyman.
Special thanks to Shaina Low, Anas Baba, Brian Castner, Dror Sadot, Mark Garlasco, Dr. Debbie Harrington, Dr. Tanya haj-Hassan, and Anja Bezold. Our website, thisamericanlife.org, where you can stream our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely free. Also, there's videos. There's lists of favorite shows to help you find something to listen to when you want to listen to it. Again, thisamericanlife.org.
This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks, as always, to our program's confounder, Mr. Torey Malatia. I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.