Transcript

834: Yousef and the Fourth Move

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Prologue: Prologue

Ira Glass

Since the beginning of the war in Gaza, Yousef Hammash has been a master of good timing and good luck. We did a story about him a few months ago. Let me remind you for a minute who he is and how capably he got his family from place to place.

Hamas attacked Israel on October 7. Yousef fled his home on October 8 because he was afraid that Jabalia, where he was from, was going to be bombed. And the next day, October 9, Jabalia was bombed. As the war moved, he moved a second time, down south, to a city called Khan Younis. Then Israel dropped leaflets from the sky telling everybody to evacuate Khan Younis immediately and get to safety further south in Rafah.

Yousef packed up the car that day, his wife Manal, his kids, his mom, and made his third move. And this is around the time that he started having conversations with one of our producers here, Chana Joffe-Walt. He told Chana that he knew his sisters, who were in Khan Younis, needed also to go to Rafah. And he kept wheedling, arguing, pleading, making promises, wearing them down.

And they still did not move until an airstrike hit the building next to them. Terrifying, right? Yousef raced to where they were, and as soon as they saw each other, Yousef and his sister shared their relief by being exactly how they always are with each other.

Yousef Hammash

The first thing I said today when I met them-- there is no discussion. We are leaving.

Chana Joffe-Walt

So you didn't hug them and cry and say, I'm so glad you survived. You said, get in the car.

Yousef Hammash

No, no, we have a different type of relation. It's not about hugging them. I was laughing. You should have died. [LAUGHS] I should be in the morgue now. [LAUGHS] This is how I am with my sisters.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And did they laugh? What did they say to that?

Yousef Hammash

Eh, Hadil was like, ah, you know. Actually, they will start to give me orders quickly. You need to talk to our cousin Emani because he was hosting us. You need to invite him. Also, go to our Uncle Eena because they wanted--

Ira Glass

Finally, he took his sisters to safety in Rafah in a tent camp that he built for them. This was back in December. Over time, Yousef's tent camp of extended family in Rafah grew to 60 people, with Yousef managing it as mayor, repairman, caterer, driver, health care provider.

And then, on the same day Yousef's sister Aseel had a baby, bringing the population of the tent camp to 61, the prime minister of Israel announced he was planning to evacuate Rafah and invade the city where Yousef's family and over a million other Palestinians were living.

Yousef was facing moving everybody for a fourth time. And he's always been the one who's made this call for his family. Yousef's the one who decides. It's too dangerous to stay where we are. And this is when we have to go. It has to be now. And this is where we're going next. But this time, Yousef didn't know where to go next to keep everybody safe and together. They got as far south as you can go in Gaza. There really might not be another place to run to. He told Chana back then--

Yousef Hammash

I feel, to be honest, I don't want to think about that because I know there is no solution. And unfortunately, this time, I'm completely useless because I ran out of options. So what am I going to do?

Chana Joffe-Walt

I have never heard you talk like that, Yousef. I've never heard you say that. You're always the guy that's like, yeah, I'll figure it out. I'll call so-and-so tomorrow, or no, we don't have it right now, but I'll figure it out.

Yousef Hammash

I don't have options ahead of me. When I have options, I'll start to think deeply about it. But up to now, I'm completely useless.

Ira Glass

But there was one other option. It was just one that Yousef had never seriously considered. They could try to leave Gaza, which might seem like an obvious choice that anybody would want to do-- flee the place where bombs are falling, and it's getting harder and harder to find food and drinkable water. But it's not an obvious choice for Yousef and for lots of people, as you'll hear.

Today, what happens when Yousef gets pressed into a fourth move, one that he has deeply mixed feelings about and is not even sure he can pull off. And that's to try to get his family out as quickly as possible before Israel invades the city where they're living. Time, he knew, was not on his side.

And if you think you can imagine what that entails, let me tell you, you really do not know the half of it. You're about to witness feats of ingenuity, strokes of luck, and big piles of cash on a deadline against enormous odds. And also, you'll see how hard it is on this family to make this decision, how even trying to go tears them up, tears Yousef up. From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. And with that, I'll turn things over to Chana.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef did not want to leave Gaza, where he's from, a place where he knows everyone, knows every system, has connections everywhere. His job is doing humanitarian work in Gaza for Gazans, and his entire family is in Gaza. A core part of Yousef's identity is that he takes care of the family. So Yousef had no plan to leave, did not even want to think about leaving Gaza. And then, one day in February, he found out he might leave Gaza. He was in the car with his wife, Manal, and their kids.

Yousef Hammash

I was going with Manal to her parents. We were visiting her parents. And I had my daughter, Illya, five years old Illya, telling me that we are going to travel to Egypt.

Chana Joffe-Walt

That meant to you they're talking about it during the day, and she's overhearing it?

Yousef Hammash

Yes. So I understood that when my daughter came to ask me, it means that they reached the limit of how much they want to do it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef did not realize that a conversation had started among the women in his family that wasn't so much happening behind his back as just away from him, in the places he wasn't.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Hi, Manal.

Manal

Hi.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Manal, I've heard so much about you.

Manal

[SPEAKING ARABIC]

Interpeter

Me, too, my dear. I've heard a lot about you.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Manal says Yousef had told her and his mother he didn't want to leave. But if they ever wanted to leave Gaza, he would make it happen. And Manal and his mom said no. Their whole family's in Gaza.

Manal

[SPEAKING ARABIC]

Interpeter

We felt it was wrong to travel and leave them behind.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And Manal knew, like everyone thinking about leaving Gaza knows, if she left, there was a good possibility she'd never come back. So, no. She said she didn't want to leave, and she meant it. But then Manal thought, maybe? The idea stuck to her.

She thought of it when her children screamed through bombing or when they begged for chicken, instead of more canned food, when she noticed Illya had forgotten all of her alphabet. And she thought of it when she spent the entire day looking for wood to boil water so her kids could drink.

She worried. What if they ran out of time? What if the Israelis showed up before Yousef had another plan? Then Manal mentioned all of this to one of Yousef's sisters, Aseel. Aseel is the sister who is most like Yousef-- decisive, a problem-solver, a planner.

Manal

[SPEAKING ARABIC]

Interpeter

I went to Aseel. She was the first to encourage me. She said, let the children live a good life. Go, leave. She encouraged me. Honestly, Aseel is the closest to me because she's been my friend since childhood. I consider her like a sister, my favorite friend and the best friend I have.

For her to encourage me to do it, that was very good for me because she knew what my interests were and told me my best interest was in leaving Gaza. I thought we should harden our hearts a bit and leave for the sake of our children.

Chana Joffe-Walt

The process of considering leaving Gaza in this war is not just one of weighing options, one item after another. It's also getting people's blessings. It's a series of permissions. There was Aseel-- gave her blessing. Eventually, the other sisters did, too, knowing that they were not going to go, couldn't go. They had their own extended families and lives in Gaza.

Yousef's mom, after some persuading, agreed to go with Manal and Yousef and the kids. So it was decided. Manal told her kids they were going. And for her, that was the happiest moment, the relief of being able to say to her kids, this will end for you. They were excited, so excited that Illya, the five-year-old, ended up breaking the news to her dad in the car before Manal even had a chance to tell him.

Chana Joffe-Walt

So you're thinking about leaving when? Soon? And how?

Yousef Hammash

First of all, it's very, very expensive. Very expensive. It's a very long process-- unclear process, actually. You know, there is a lot of playing here and there. I try to not ignore it, postpone it. Unfortunately, when I think about the decision itself, I get lost quickly because there is loads of details behind that decision. Ah, it's really difficult. But making that decision is not getting along with my personality.

Chana Joffe-Walt

It's not getting along with your personality?

Yousef Hammash

Yes, 160 days of war, and that wasn't enough to raise the idea in my head that I should leave Gaza. Leaving now, it's kind of, I am escaping my responsibility towards my sisters, my responsibility toward my job, my responsibility towards my friends who I'm supporting. But I'm standing ahead my responsibility towards my children. It's very-- I don't know. It's very difficult decision if you put these two responsibilities in front of you, and you have to choose.

Chana Joffe-Walt

This was March. Israel continued to say, our plan is to invade Rafah. Yousef knew, if they did invade, they might close the border. There was limited time to act. He agreed it was the right choice for his children.

And yet, everything about how this move was happening was different, slower than I'd seen Yousef act through the entire war-- not that he was stalling. He'd made some calls. He was going through the steps. But old Yousef would have made 1,000 calls, checking all the angles, calling in favors, urgently reading everything available about what Israel might do next and when. And now, this Yousef did not sound like a person who knows there may only be a small window to make your next move. And it's easy to be too late.

Yousef Hammash

But for me, to be honest, I am not thinking about it deeply. And I'm very sorry. And I know it's a wrong way, but for me, the only thing that I can do is to keep avoiding thinking about it until it became more closer.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Mm-hmm.

Yousef Hammash

I will do it. I'm starting the process and all of that. Yeah, it's very long process, very complicated process.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef couldn't talk about the process, how they'd get out on the record. He worried, justifiably, that any public statement could jeopardize their chances of getting out. What he could say was that he had paid to register his family to leave, and that at some point, his family's names would appear on a list of people allowed to cross the Rafah border. But when that would happen-- unclear.

Another week passed, then another. Those blessings Manal had collected from everyone in the family, they meant it, but the longer this wait went on, the blessings got a little worn. Yousef started seeing it when he checked in on his sisters.

Yousef Hammash

One of the incidents happened. We had an issue between one of my sisters and her husband. And when I went there, I had to, yaani, solve the issue there. And I found out that my sisters were complaining. Yeah, so he's leaving. He's leaving us here in these circumstances. Blah, blah, blah. And they were a bit annoyed. So I was like, OK, now you were pushing for that. And now you are objecting that. Then I found out it's a moment that they were angry and all of that, and it's fine.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Uh-huh.

Yousef Hammash

I know how they feel about it. And I know how they are scared. And I believe they have the right to be scared. It does feel me guilty. It makes me feel guilty. But I am already guilty from the beginning. So I already--

Chana Joffe-Walt

You already feel guilty.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, I really feel guilty.

Chana Joffe-Walt

He was not doing his job keeping them safe and together. But while he waited, Yousef really did try on the safety front. He threw himself in to making sure his sisters would be OK without him there. He lined up a million backups-- a guy with a car in case they needed to leave quickly, a guy to help with broken phones, with internet problems.

He told friends, I'm going to be calling on you. You need to look out for my sisters. He set up a contact at a currency shop so he could send money from Egypt. And he stashed emergency cash with several different people he trusted.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, there is a lot of things had to be put in place and to be designated for someone, because I found out that I was doing a lot of things.

Chana Joffe-Walt

You have definitely been doing a lot of things. I would think you would need at least a dozen people to do all the jobs you've been doing.

Yousef Hammash

I believe a hundred people would never do the job with love and passion, as I was doing it. It was always part of, give me energy, always, when I am managing things for them. That's the difference between me doing the job and a hundred people doing the job.

Chana Joffe-Walt

President Biden was warning Israel not to invade Rafah. 26 EU countries issued a statement saying an invasion of Rafah would be catastrophic. Yousef continued to wait. There continued to be bombings, drones, gunfire all the time, but also something new that Yousef noticed happening around him in Rafah and at the family's tent camp-- a slow motion collapse.

Every day, Yousef would notice a new deterioration of just daily life. There was no trash pickup, no police or services, nobody regulating traffic or businesses. There was no governance. One day, he'd get a call that someone's mother-in-law used the shower when it wasn't her family's day. And by the time Yousef arrived, the conflict had exploded for another day.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah. [LAUGHS] So my brother-in-law had a fight with one of the neighbors. And my two brothers-in-law beating that guy and insult him in a bad way. And it happens that he's a friend of mine, and, ah, that was difficult. I had to intervene between both of them, apologizing here and there, trying to find the-- to mediate between them.

Chana Joffe-Walt

What'd they fight about?

Yousef Hammash

Uh, small children had a fight. They went to speak with him. They didn't like the way he responded. It resulted in clashes by hand. Today, I have another one with one of the other brother-in-law with another neighbor for another stupid reason.

The circumstances and what we are going through is pushing us to become unstable mentally. So everyone is under huge pressure from the amount of responsibilities that you have to do or just to move from a place to the other, just trying to get cash from a bank or an ATM. Everything is very dramatic.

Chana Joffe-Walt

The more of this Yousef saw, the more he settled in to the decision to go.

Yousef Hammash

Now it's really common. We see people with guns, a lot of disputes between families, a lot of killing crimes, looting. And that's affecting the entire society itself. People are fighting for no reasons now.

A few days ago, we had water trucking. So they had a lot of humanitarian organizations have provide water trucking where they send drinkable waters by trucks to these areas. We had a small dispute on the line where people put their jerry cans in line. Small disputes have resulted seven people killed, yaani. It's simple as that.

Chana Joffe-Walt

What happened?

Yousef Hammash

I wasn't there, but I was hearing the shooting. It's next to us directly.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Uh-huh.

Yousef Hammash

It's like 100 meters away and a lot of ambulances. And what turned that fight is just a small line in front of drinking water. So that's one of the things that pushing me to-- no, I have to rescue my children from that.

Chana Joffe-Walt

But, Yousef, you've seen Israeli bombs destroy homes. You've seen much more dramatic than that. Why did that get to you?

Yousef Hammash

That's a good question. It feels different when you look to it as your own people. Then I don't justify for the Israelis what they are doing and what they are committing in Gaza. But with all the aggression that they are doing, it's a bit different, the way you see it, when you see it among your own people. But societies can easily be fragile and destroyed like our society is destroyed now.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Seven weeks after Israel announced plans to invade Rafah, Yousef and Manal were still waiting. Every night, they would check a Telegram channel called the Land Port Rafah Crossing.

Around 10:00 PM, it would post screenshots of a printed list of names. You'd have to zoom in on the photo, and if your name was on that list, you knew to show up at the Rafah crossing the next day. You had been granted permission to cross. 300, sometimes 400, people a day.

Yousef and Manal's names were never listed. But Yousef started seeing the names of people he knew had registered not long before him showing up on the list. By the end of March, he told me, it must be close.

Chana Joffe-Walt

How are you feeling?

Yousef Hammash

It's happening, and so I feel excited for that.

Chana Joffe-Walt

You feel excited?

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, yeah, kind of afraid and excited at the same time. So I'm going for nowhere. It's like I'm abandoning a lot of things here in Gaza-- my social status, my value, my job, my career. Ah, so to a new journey, and unfortunately, until now, I don't have any horizon where I'm going, what's the plan.

Chana Joffe-Walt

I'm surprised to hear you say you're excited.

Yousef Hammash

And excited in a weird way. OK, it's like I want it to happen. And it's like when you are going to get a needle. There is a pain that you go through it, and I just want to do it, hallas.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Oh, like when you're getting a shot, and you just want it to be over.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, exactly.

Chana Joffe-Walt

So that's not really excited. That's like dread.

Yousef Hammash

Ah, I don't know. [LAUGHS]

Chana Joffe-Walt

[LAUGHS] That sounds more like--

Yousef Hammash

English is not my language.

Chana Joffe-Walt

[LAUGHS] That sounds more like dread to me than excitement. Nervous. Nervous, maybe.

Yousef Hammash

It's kind of, yeah, I just want to do it, hallas. Before that, I did the registration. I was OK with it. I didn't think about it a lot. And but since I registered, it became like a pain that is like, I just want to finish it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Mm-hmm, just want to be on the other side already of whatever is going to happen.

Yousef Hammash

Exactly.

Chana Joffe-Walt

What is this? This wait to be placed on a list, what is this? And you have to pay to get on the list? Why? There were, at the time, over a million people living in a city that was about to be invaded. There was one way out of Gaza. I wanted to understand what was this opaque process that Yousef was waiting on and could barely talk about.

Ira Glass

Chana Joffe-Walt. Coming up, the actual price to get somebody out of Gaza. And yes, they're going to want that in cash. No wire transfer, no credit card, no mobile payment. Good, old-fashioned cash only. That's in a minute, on Chicago Public Radio, when our program continues.

Act One: Act One

Ira Glass

It's This American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Today's show, we're returning to Yousef Hammash and his family in Rafah, who've been caught up in this war that began October 7 when Hamas crossed into Israel, killed nearly 1,200 Israelis, and took over 240 hostages, and has dragged on for nearly nine months now, over 37,000 Palestinians and over 1,500 Israelis dead and people like Yousef and his sisters trapped in the middle of the fighting.

And back in February, when Yousef decided to try to leave Gaza, leave all this behind, it was hard getting everybody on board, handing off responsibilities. But also it was just literally hard to leave. It was hard to get out.

Yousef was cautious when it came to talking about this part of the process, so Chana started asking around. How exactly does it work? How did a person get out of Gaza with the clock ticking? Everybody wondering when and if Israel was really going to do what it had announced it was going to do and actually invade Rafah. What procedure do you go through? Who do you call? What form do you fill out to leave Gaza? Here's Chana.

Chana Joffe-Walt

You know it's not a clean, defensible operation when nobody who touches it will talk about it. I spoke with Palestinians who went through the Rafah crossing, or were trying to, people who've reported on the system, people who work inside it. Almost everybody didn't want to talk publicly. They all worried about pissing off the wrong people in the Egyptian military and intelligence.

The first detailed document I read about how the Rafah crossing works was an investigation by a group of reporters at a site called the Organized Crime, Corruption, and Reporting Project. And even they, the people who authored the report, did not want to be named.

Naya

You can just say that I'm one of the OCCRP reporters who worked on this investigation.

Chana Joffe-Walt

There were several reporters working inside and outside Gaza. I'm going to call this one Naya. Naya explained, after October 7, when Hamas attacked Israel, officially, Palestinians in Gaza with no other passport were not allowed to leave through the Rafah border. Israel closed every other exit point.

But pretty soon, these ads started popping up online, offering to get people out. They were for brokers, people calling themselves travel agents or travel coordinators. Naya pulled up a couple of the ads while we were talking-- travel in luxury, your dignity and pride intact.

Naya

And really, I mean, it's like, they're so creepy and tacky at the same time. I mean-- wait. Let me see if I can find it. It was very funny. OK, there's one called the King's Coordinations. It says the strongest coordination on the level of Gaza. And then it says easy and guaranteed. And it has a photo of the Sphinx and then a plane over that Sphinx and then a guy looking very modern, wearing a rucksack on his back and orange jeans. It looks so funny. [LAUGHS]

Chana Joffe-Walt

Why is that so funny to you?

Naya

Because, I mean, the country is-- I mean, Gaza is a place of death and destruction. And the Sphinx is next to him, and the plane flies over the Sphinx.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Mm-hmm, like he's going to see the pyramids with his camera around his neck.

Naya

It has nothing to do with the reality.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Every war has its own manic economy. These travel coordinators were sometimes charging $2,500 per person, sometimes $5,000. It depended who you asked and when. You could send the money from your phone or hand it to a coordinator in Gaza. As best Naya and the other OCCRP reporters could find out, a lot of the money seemed to go to Egyptian intelligence, although Egypt has publicly denied this.

And the price rose over time. A few months after the war started, we called one of the brokers ourselves and asked what exactly is the price now. And he said, sometimes it's $7,000, $10,000, or $12,000-- $12,000 per person, an astounding number. Before the war started, the average person in Gaza made $3,700 a year. It was very difficult for Palestinians trying to leave to tell who was legit or to price shop. People gave their money to brokers who disappeared. It was the Wild West.

And then, the entire system changed. Egypt controls the Rafah crossing. Here are some things Egypt did not want. Egypt did not want Israel pushing Palestinians from Gaza into Egypt. It didn't want a refugee crisis. It didn't want Hamas getting a foothold in Egypt. Egypt also didn't want to look like it was supporting the displacement of Palestinians by facilitating their exit out of Gaza. And last, Egypt definitely did not want to look like it was collaborating in a black market to charge Palestinians tens of thousands of dollars to save their lives.

By the beginning of this year, it did look like that. By February and March, there were reports that the main company offering travel coordination at the Rafah border was making a million dollars a day off Palestinians. The manic economy was reined in. New rules. No more hiring brokers in Gaza to help you register to leave. No more paying by phone. No more free-for-all bribes at the border.

There would only be one company allowed to register people to leave Gaza, an Egyptian company called Hala with close ties to the Egyptian military and security services. And now, if you wanted to register, you needed to send someone to the Hala offices in Cairo in person. And not just anyone-- a first-degree relative. And you'd need to pay in cash-- $5,000 for an adult, $2,500 for a kid, American dollars only. It's like a dare. How could anyone in Gaza pull this off?

This new system for getting out of Gaza kicked in just as Israel announced its plans for an offensive in Rafah, just as Manal told Yousef she was ready to leave. A new, much more rigid system that made it much, much harder to get out. Yousef couldn't talk about how he raised that much money, in dollars, and got it to the Hala office in Cairo and how he did it fast enough to register to get on the list in order to maybe make it out in time. Most Palestinians in Gaza didn't want to talk about any of that either. So I reached a Palestinian outside of Gaza on the West Bank.

Bushra Khalidi

OK, so, first, we set up the GoFundMe page, and that was a whole thing, an ordeal of itself.

Chana Joffe-Walt

I knew the system was outrageous, but I didn't know-know until I talked to Bushra. Bushra Khalidi lives in the West Bank in Ramallah. She's Palestinian. Her husband's family is from Gaza, and Bushra wanted to help them get out, seven people, $30,000, which she didn't have and had to fundraise.

Bushra Khalidi

So I couldn't say in my GoFundMe page that I lived in Palestine because Palestinians are not allowed to receive any funds from GoFundMe. And they actually emailed me and said, because you're in a risky area, blah, blah, blah, you cannot-- you know. And then I had a co-sponsor with me from the US. Like, eventually, I found somebody. I found a-- it's a long story.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Short version-- she needed someone else to help her set up the GoFundMe page. And the way she found that person, her brother-in-law is in a band that tours and knew someone in the US who could help them set up the page. Pretty quickly, talking to Bushra, I got a picture that this is the kind of person you need on your team if your family has any chance of getting out.

Bushra is a lawyer. She speaks perfect English. She works for a global NGO, Oxfam. She's used to navigating bureaucracies in multiple languages. She has connections in countries all over the world. To navigate this complex process, you need someone who can make things happen. You need a Bushra or a Yousef. Apparently, you also need to know someone who's in a band.

Bushra Khalidi

So that was the first hurdles. And then it was a hurdle to write the story. Because every time you wrote the story, it has to be verified by GoFundMe, and then they would allow it or not. So they weren't allowing me mentioning that I lived in Palestine, so we had to change the story, but we didn't want to lie. You know what I mean?

So we had to then change the story, say that I kind of lived between Europe and Palestine and kind of travel for work. I do travel a lot. It had to be-- we had to write the story in terms of she was fundraising on behalf of me that lived in Europe, who was going to help my family in Gaza.

Chana Joffe-Walt

The GoFundMe worked, but it wasn't enough. They raised $20,000. They needed $30,000 for the Hala fees. Bushra and her husband were already sending money constantly into Gaza, money to pay for $200 bags of flour, for transportation every time the family had to move-- five times. Bushra knew if the family made it to Cairo, they wouldn't be allowed to work, so they'd need help paying for housing and food there, too. So actually, Bushra realized, they needed $50,000.

Bushra Khalidi

So we took a loan out of 20k and then put of our savings, 20k.

Chana Joffe-Walt

OK.

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah. All our life savings.

Chana Joffe-Walt

How did you guys make that decision, or was that an obvious choice?

Bushra Khalidi

That also was what delayed the process, is like we're currently-- we bought our house a year ago. We're finishing it. So, I mean, it's just been a huge financial strain.

Chana Joffe-Walt

I talked to people in Gaza who sold the cars they were living in to pay for these fees. I heard about families that sold their furniture, took out loans, families who hit up aunts and cousins and extended family across multiple countries until every family member's savings was drained. And once you did that, had the money in hand, it wasn't over.

Bushra Khalidi

The move for us that was really complicated was figuring out a way how to get the money in, because you have to pay cash, in dollars, in Egypt. And in order for you to-- you can't send the money by bank transfer to an Egyptian account. It has to be somebody in Egypt that has a USD account and--

Chana Joffe-Walt

Wait, wait, wait, what? So you have to have-- you can't transfer money to an account?

Bushra Khalidi

No, it's like $40,000 to Egypt.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And you couldn't figure out literally just how to get the cash there?

Bushra Khalidi

How do we get $40,000, 40k in? Well, the thing is, is that I could have flown out and taken it, but then we found out that it has to be a first-degree relative that registers. Do you see what I mean? They have to register the family. And I'm not first-degree. I'm just like the in-law. I'm like the daughter-in-law.

So I couldn't. And then my husband, Palestinian men under 40 years old can't enter Egypt unless you have a specific-- you have to have a permit from the Egyptian authorities and secret services. And they do all the security checks. So that was also not an option for my husband to go.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Oh my god.

Bushra Khalidi

So it had to be his sister in Sweden that went out--

Chana Joffe-Walt

Just to register them?

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, so we flew her out and her daughters and her husband, too, because she has two very small kids. So we flew them all out. And their situation is not amazing in Sweden. They couldn't afford $2,500 for the plane ticket. So we paid for those, too. Oh, God. Now I'm talking about-- when I'm counting all of this, I can't believe it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Once the sister arrived in Cairo, Bushra then had to figure out how do I get her the cash so she can go in person to register the family at the Hala office. Bushra had a friend in Egypt.

Bushra Khalidi

He could receive about $20,000 in his account. So I was like, OK, I'll transfer $20,000 to him. And then we sent-- and there was a person-- I'm not exactly sure, and again, I'm not asking questions, but he was like, I don't want to say an agent, but he was like a person that was going to Egypt-- a businessman going to Egypt that was taking money for people, dollars to Egypt for people. So he carried $15,000 for us.

Chana Joffe-Walt

No way.

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, basically we paid him $1,500 to take $15,000 with him.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And just to be, like, the mule. Just to carry it, basically.

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was risky. That was a risky move.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And did you get the sense that that person is doing that all the time?

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, but I don't think it was for necessarily evacuating people from Gaza. It's just he's a businessman. He has businesses in Cairo. So he was able to carry. I don't know. I don't know what he does, but he's like an entrepreneur. I have no details.

Chana Joffe-Walt

[LAUGHS]

Bushra Khalidi

That, I didn't ask. I was like, cool. We got somebody. My husband didn't really ask. He knew the guy. He knew the guy from a guy. So he was like, OK, cool. He didn't ask questions.

Chana Joffe-Walt

OK, so your sister-in-law arrives in Cairo. She goes to meet your friend who's holding $20,000 for you and the businessman who has personally delivered, for quite a high fee, another $15,000. And all of that, then she collects that, driving around Cairo? Those, like, piles of cash?

Bushra Khalidi

Literally.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Well--

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, I guess. I mean, is it piles of cash? It's like 350 $100 notes. So it's not--

Chana Joffe-Walt

That's a lot of cash. I mean, it's not a suitcase, I guess.

Bushra Khalidi

I guess it is pretty piled--

Chana Joffe-Walt

But it's not--

Bushra Khalidi

Yeah, it's not a suitcase.

Chana Joffe-Walt

You can't put it in a wallet.

Bushra Khalidi

No, you can't put it in a wallet. That's a good question. I should ask how she carried it. [LAUGHS] But so they got an apartment right next to the company.

Chana Joffe-Walt

The Hala company. The sister-in-law stood in line, paid the money, and then they waited for the names of Bushra's in-laws to show up on the list. Bushra and her family were stuck checking the same strange Telegram channel Yousef was, the one with the screenshots of this life-or-death list.

The wait was excruciating. Bushra didn't want to think or talk about it. Her sister-in-law wanted to talk about it all the time. They were all watching the news and the list. On April 14, their names appeared on the list. The family left the next day.

Bushra Khalidi

I mean, definitely, when their names came out on the list, it was like a physical-- there was something physical that changed in me.

Chana Joffe-Walt

What did it feel like? What changed?

Bushra Khalidi

It just was like-- it's like, OK, they're going to survive. They're going to live.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yeah.

Bushra Khalidi

And there's no word for it in English, but maybe you can look it up. In Arabic, it's called Qaher. It's like a mix of anger and disgust-- the word. That's what it means. It's like a mix of anger, disgust, and despair.

Chana Joffe-Walt

And you felt that--

Bushra Khalidi

That's what it is.

Chana Joffe-Walt

--toward what? What made you feel which part?

Bushra Khalidi

I mean, listen. I had never met my in-laws.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Never met her in-laws because Israeli restrictions make it very hard to travel between the West Bank and Gaza.

Bushra Khalidi

Like, how is it that this has to happen for us to meet and for my son to meet his grandparents for the first time, you know? Like, how? Why? Why do we have to go through this?

Chana Joffe-Walt

What is it going to mean to your family to have spent this money on this, like long-term or--

Bushra Khalidi

Shame. Shame.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Shame? Why?

Bushra Khalidi

Because they're ashamed. Because that's not who we are, you know? We've been rendered destitute, you know? They're not destitute people, you know? They had a beautiful home and beautiful lives.

And to put that on your son, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if it's shame, but it's like guilt maybe. It's like they're so grateful that they're ashamed to say it. You know what I mean? It's embarrassing that they put that on us. And so we don't talk about it. It's not like there's a thank you because even a thank you is not enough for them. And so it's better not to say it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Do you want to talk about it?

Bushra Khalidi

Um, no, because I would do it a million times over again. And they know that. I just need to know that they're alive and that they're good. And now, I mean, the thing is, is that they're in Egypt now, and I'm in Egypt now. And but the road ahead is so hard. And coming here and just seeing them, they're not the same people. They never will be the same people, you know?

Chana Joffe-Walt

This brings us back to Yousef. Yousef, who knew this, he knew leaving Gaza meant he would not be the same person. And still, Yousef was going through all these steps through a system designed to frustrate, deter, and bankrupt him. Yousef's version of this process, raising an astounding amount of money, getting the cash in dollars physically to the Hala office, Yousef's maneuvers were not the exact same as Bushra's, but they were just as involved and absurd, right up until he was registered and waiting for permission to do something he did not want to do.

When he was growing up, Yousef's uncle used to tell him he reminded him of his grandfather. He grew up hearing this a lot, the similarities to his grandfather. And Yousef got it. His grandfather hustled, made things happen. He was resourceful. But Yousef has been thinking about this lately, what it meant to be like his grandfather, what else it meant.

His grandfather is the one who got everyone to Jabalia, to the refugee camp in the north of Gaza, when they were all pushed out of their homes in what is now Israel in 1948. His grandfather is the one who made sure everyone got set up in the same place next to each other, made sure they survived, had housing, had their needs met. He made sure they were safe, and they were together. And they were.

Jabalia Camp became a small city. People moved to bigger apartments nearby, had kids, but the family stayed safe and right next to each other. 75 years later, Yousef was the one who moved his sisters and their families to a tent camp in Rafah so they could all be nearby, safe and together.

They were there for three months when Yousef heard from a contact in Egypt, a friend with connections at the Hala Company, who told him that his family's names were likely to be listed in the next week. He wasn't just failing at keeping the family together. He was the one who was going to split them up.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef, are you packing?

Yousef Hammash

I don't have anything to back. That's the easiest thing about it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

That's the easiest part? [LAUGHS]

Yousef Hammash

[LAUGHS] I have two jeans pants, two T-shirts, two jackets, and actually, most of it, I will leave it for my brothers-in-law. I'm just going to take just what I could wear during the first day and just a pajama for the next day. And that's it. The easiest part is packing. [LAUGHS]

Chana Joffe-Walt

What's the hardest part?

Yousef Hammash

[SIGHS] It's also packing. [LAUGHS] Tangibly, there is nothing to be packed during the journey, but we are packing our relations with our families now. I don't know how it's going to be that day when we are just going out. And I don't want to really think about that moment because I don't know how it's going to be. And, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be difficult. I don't want to think about it. Let's wait and see.

[PHONE RINGS]

Chana Joffe-Walt

Hi, Yousef.

Yousef Hammash

Hello, Chana.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Hi.

Yousef Hammash

Hi.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Hi. How's your day been?

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, I don't know. It was a bit long and [SIGHS] yaani, end up with our name listed by the Egyptians to cross tomorrow to leave to Egypt.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Wow.

Yousef Hammash

And I wasn't expecting that soon, but looking to my sisters. Today, I received the news when I was with my sisters. And it was really difficult, how to deal with it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

You were with your sisters when you found out?

Yousef Hammash

And they were list-- 'cause they list the names usually after 10:00 PM in the night. So we were there, having iftar with Aseel and the rest of my sisters, Heba and Hadil.

I have a friend who lives in Egypt. And he have some access with the Hala company, which is the company that we registered through it to cross to Egypt. And he told me that my name is not listed. It's not going to be listed today, so I don't need to wait for the list. It's going to be listed for tomorrow.

So I decided we were having iftar with my sisters. I told them that we are leaving the day after. And I just wanted to use that day with them. We agreed to have iftar together, all of us. And we were planning for tomorrow that even I don't want to go to work. I want to spend it with my sisters. I take my family there. We spend the entire day there.

Then we go back to prepare ourself to travel. And suddenly, when we were there, one of-- it's the wife of one of our colleagues who lives with us. She called and she said, your names are listed. And it was very shocking, and suddenly, everything became a chaos. Everyone started crying. And it was a very emotional moment that I didn't want to see.

My daughter Illya was crying because her aunts are crying, my wife is crying, my mother is crying. [SIGHS] And then I found myself in this chaotic situation, trying to understand if it's the right option or not, if it's--

Chana Joffe-Walt

You were having doubts?

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, yeah, of course. I am going for nowhere, leaving behind me everything. An entire life. And this is the second time I'm leaving things behind. I left my house in the north toward the south. I left my house, my memories, everything in the north.

Now I'm trying to understand or to imagine how my sisters are feeling when they are losing their backup, their support. Whenever they want anything, whenever they are facing anything, they know that Yousef is there.

Chana Joffe-Walt

What did they say, Yousef? What did they say to you?

Yousef Hammash

Everyone was in a shock, including me. Everyone was crying, and I was looking to my sisters. I felt how weak I am to make that decision. I don't have enough courage to leave everything behind. And this is one of the hardest moments in my life.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yeah.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, it is [INAUDIBLE]. When I was looking for my sisters, when they are thinking about losing their entire family, it's not only me. It's my wife, my children, their mother. I couldn't find the right word. What should I say?

And the issue is that I was very overwhelmed emotionally. And if I said-- and it happened. When I start to talk to them, I was trying to show how strong I am. And I was like, it's fine. Since a month I informed you to be prepared for this moment. Then here where I lost control of my emotions.

It's usually I'm that tough man who cannot be seen as a weak person. And I understood how weak I am. And I don't want to be shown weak in front of them, but it's out of my hand. My sisters, I think they-- I believe they know. They know that I will do anything for them and whenever they need anything. I already prepared everything. And--

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef, you told me over the last months that every time I asked how you feel about leaving, you were sort of like, I can't. I don't know. I'll know when it happens. I don't know. I can't think about it. Do you feel like you're suddenly thinking about it now?

Yousef Hammash

I was postponing thinking about it because I understood how hard it is. And I was doing right. I was doing right today when I received the news and then knowing that I'm leaving tomorrow. I never felt the pain inside me like today. And I was right. I was right. And now it's real. It's happening. And I'm leaving Gaza tomorrow. It's like losing my identity.

Chana Joffe-Walt

When are you leaving?

Yousef Hammash

I'm leaving 7:00 AM in the morning.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Oh, wow. You're leaving in six hours.

Yousef Hammash

Yeah, I'm leaving.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Are you going to sleep?

Yousef Hammash

I don't know if I could manage to sleep. Because tomorrow morning, at 7:00 AM, I have to go to meet my sisters again before we leave. And I want to make sure, even if I have one more minute to spend it with them, I'll do it. I don't know. Chana, I'm going through one of the most difficult-- it's not one of the most. It's the most difficult decision I've made in my entire life.

Chana Joffe-Walt

I know.

Yousef Hammash

And now I'm just leaving everything. Now I am leaving. And they will be refugee once again. Born as a refugee, raised as a refugee, and now starting a new life as a refugee.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef, I want to let you go have time with your family and also hopefully sleep some before you have to make that trip tomorrow.

Yousef Hammash

Thanks. Thank you, Chana. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And I think our next call will be from a different place.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yeah.

Yousef Hammash

Hopefully it will go OK.

Chana Joffe-Walt

All right. Bye, Yousef.

Yousef Hammash

Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Bye.

Yousef left through the Rafah crossing the next day. That day, his family saw the world outside Gaza for the first time. The kids were amazed by the electricity in Cairo and the trees. Trees in Gaza have been cut down now to use for fire. When Illya and Ahmed started to tell their cousins in Gaza about the watermelon they were eating and the playground they played on, Yousef had to tell them to keep that kind of thing to themselves from now on.

Manal took the children to the market and bought chocolate. Yousef sat at the computer, continuing to try to make plans for his sisters, trying to figure out where were the Israeli tanks now, what might their approach into Rafah be, what was the intensity of the bombing that day, and what did it mean. Were the NGOs leaving Rafah yet? Were other people leaving? Was it time for his sisters to move somewhere else in Gaza?

Then, on May 6, the Israeli military sent tanks into Rafah. The invasion had finally started. That same day, there was news that Hamas had agreed to a ceasefire. It was very confusing, but for a couple hours, it seemed like maybe there was going to be a ceasefire.

Yousef Hammash

I was very, very excited and hyped. And it was like, what to do? It's like, OK. Yaani, start to think about what next, what I'm going to do with the family. It's like, ah, I should go back to Gaza. And then I start even to look at what is the process to go back to Gaza as soon as I can. And--

Chana Joffe-Walt

What? Really?

Yousef Hammash

It might take one, two weeks. Yeah. I'm useless here. What am I doing here? Watching the news? Writing reports? I want to be there. The only option for me is to go back to Gaza. And even with my sisters, I can just drop them in the car, and we keep running in Gaza from a place to the other. I don't mind it.

Chana Joffe-Walt

Yousef was suddenly back to the person I remembered talking to for every other move before this last one-- energized, frantic.

Yousef Hammash

I start to think rationally about what I'm going to happen, what I'm going to do. And the plan that I'm having now is to figure out a way how to come back.

Chana Joffe-Walt

But that day, there was no ceasefire. And the next day, the Israeli military seized the Rafah crossing into Egypt and closed the border. There was no way back. Yousef would be in one world. His sisters would be back home in another.

Act Two: Act Two

Ira Glass

Chana Joffe-Walt is one of the producers of our show. Chana's story about Yousef was edited by Laura Starecheski and Nancy Updike. Our episode today was produced by Aviva DeKornfeld. The people who put together today's episode include Jendayi Bonds, Zoe Chace, Michael Comite, Emmanuel Dzotsi, Katherine Rae Mondo, Nadia Reiman, Safiyah Riddle, Ryan Rumery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Swetala, Matt Tierney, Julie Whitaker, and Diane Wu.

Our managing editor is Sarah Abdurrahman. Our senior editor is David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emanuele Berry. Reporting, research, and Arabic translation from Hany Hawasly. Arabic interpreting from Emna Zghal and Sawsan Abdelatif. Arabic voiceover by Leem Lubany. Additional reporting by Fatma and by Dana Ballout.

Special thanks to all the reporters at Mada Masr and the Organized Crime, Corruption, and Reporting Project. Thanks also to Shaina Low, Mona Chalabi, Miriam Marmur, Tara Abboud, Adam Bakri, and Rania Mustafa. Casting help from Sabrina Hyman.

Our website, if you're going on a long drive, going on a vacation, looking for something to listen to, over 800 episodes of our program streaming for absolutely free. ThisAmericanLife.org. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by PRX, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks, as always, to our program's cofounder, Mr. Torey Malatia. He keeps getting pulled into these spats on X, especially with this one guy. Torey couldn't remember his name, Elon something.

Naya

I don't know what he does, but he's, like, an entrepreneur.

Ira Glass

I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of This American Life.